An Atheistic Examination of the Culture of Death
Retirement - Sat, Oct 30, 2004
There's a subtlety about getting what you want in politics. It's just plain greedy to come right out and say you want something because YOU want it. It's much more polite to say that God wants it. As Abraham Lincoln, Richard Nixon and John Kerry all said, what's important is not that God be on our side, but that we be on God's side.
Extra nuance is required when your politics includes killing politicians. Naturally you have ask God to kill them rather than to make the threat yourself -- but, as Wizbang reports, even that approach might earn you a visit from the Secret Service if you phrase your request as bluntly as this livejournaler did:
Dear God:Wassup? How's it hanging? Yeah, I know it's been a long time since we talked. This probably stems from my belief that you do not exist. Anyway, the reason why I'm calling you is because last night, President Bush said that he could feel it every time we prayed for him, and since he apparently doesn't listen to anyone but you, Lord, I thought you might pass this along to him.
Please kil1George Bush. I hate him so much. I think he is a giant dick and I want terrible things to happen to him. I'm not really big on the specifics of how he dies, but if you could at least arrange it so that the authorities find his dead body on top of an underage black male prostitute surrounded by a mountain of cocaine and child pornography, that would really be super-awesome.
Remember that God's a smart guy, and He'll get it if you gently hint at what you want without explicitly mentioning killing or death. For example, if it's John Forbes Kerry you dislike, repeatly refer to him in your prayers as "JFK." Or, you could try the Pat Robertson approach -- with a few well-chosen words, you can rout the entire federal judiciary:
Would you join with me and many others in crying out to our Lord to change the [Supreme] Court? If we fast and pray and earnestly seek God's face, then He will hear our prayer and give us relief.One justice is 83 years old, another has cancer, and another has a heart condition. Would it not be possible for God to put it in the minds of these three judges that the time has come to retire?
But you don't have to suggest that they "retire" if you think that's too obvious. You can also pray that they be allowed to "complete their full lifetime terms."
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The Raving Atheist » Comments on: Retirement
"How's it hanging?"??
I believe the origin of this cliche was a reference to the male genitalia. Hilarious!
[Edit] October 31, 2004
GOD still loves you. You know it because someday your rotting body is going to fail you and turn into a corpse and then you have to wonder what is going to happen to the rest of what is you. Your wonderous intellect and coordination are not a matter of random chance that will fade into oblivion. Something will survive for you cannot end, you are intelligent, sentient, capable, loving....These are not things of the dying flesh you are inhabiting. You will live on but how? May the Lord Jesus Christ soften your heart and teach you that "how", otherwise that worthless physical form you currently inhabit will continue to deteriorate and feel more pain until the final judgement comes, as it does to all, and your hoped for nothingness stretches out for an eternity of pain.
[Edit] October 31, 2004
Hahaha!
[Edit] October 31, 2004
[i]GOD still loves you[/i]
a transexual loves me. its not my preference, but im flattered
[i]You know it because someday your rotting body is going to fail you and turn into a corpse[/i]
so... god loves dead people. did you know that has recently become illegal in california? this should really effect him, since he/she/it is everywhere.
[i]turn into a corpse and then you have to wonder what is going to happen to the rest of what is you[/i]
oh right, because my magical invisible soul that science cant find needs to go somewhere
[i]Your wonderous intellect and coordination are not a matter of random chance that will fade into oblivion.[/i]
so, you think your god will put my brain in a jar for all eternity.
[i]Something will survive for you cannot end[/i]
i dont see why not
[i]you are intelligent, sentient, capable, loving[/i]
very intelligent
[i]These are not things of the dying flesh you are inhabiting[/i]
i dont know, does your brain count as flesh?
[i]You will live on but how?[/i]
mad scientists?
[i]May the Lord Jesus Christ soften your heart and teach you that "how", [/i]
a soft heart doesnt sound that healthy... could it result in heart failure?
[i]otherwise that worthless physical form you currently inhabit will continue to deteriorate and feel more pain until the final judgement comes[/i]
worthless physical form... you dont have that much self-confidence about your image, do you?
[i]as it does to all, and your hoped for nothingness stretches out for an eternity of pain. [/i]
this, i just find hilarious... you think we hope for nothingness, why dont you listen to your self for a second... you think your gonna get whisked away to a magical sky kingdom for all eternity, were everyone who died that you care about will be there, yet us dillusional atheists are the ones with the fantasy, just hoping. sure an alltruistic happyland sounds great, but be realistic, believing in it doesnt make it so.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
My, my, I think "GOD still loves you" told us to die of some loathsome disease involving gross deterioration of the body while our minds remain intact so we can suffer it all, and then, if that fails to convince us that God loves us, "GOD s.l.y." wishes us an eternity of horrible torture. Nice, loving, compassionate Christian, yes?
[Edit] November 1, 2004
speedwell -- Warning you of the potential of an eternity of horrible torture and wishing for you an eternity of horrible torture are NOT the same thing. Warning you of the danger of such a fate is, in fact, an act of compassion. It is the person who knows of such a potential and yet refuses to warn that is not compassionate, yes?
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Frank,
Thanks for all the compassion you show. Could you explain exactly how fast fast my flesh will melt away once I enter the realm of hell? Just because I don't believe in your god doesn't mean I don't want to know how he is planning on torturing me for all eternity.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Frank
>>>Warning you of the potential of an eternity of horrible torture and wishing for you an eternity of horrible torture are NOT the same thing.
Ah what a wonderful omnipotent god he is then, eh Frank? Torture, horrible torture for ever. It really sounds like a deranged mortal man to me. Truly an absurd attribute for a god. Do you live in fear Frank? People who are being good because they don't want to go to this imaginary hell are not good people; they are obedient people. Big difference.
>>>Warning you of the danger of such a fate is, in fact, an act of compassion. It is the person who knows of such a potential and yet refuses to warn that is not compassionate, yes?
Such a person is really trying to make somebody afraid, because there’s nothing to be afraid of. That’s not a nice person.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
That was funny. If Gods exists, I feel he better be an improvement over we humans. Hell is, well, about as sinful an idea as could possibly be created. The entire thought of it is a HUGE problem if you believe God is loving.
It means the jews went from the gas to the fire...........................and are still there. If you oppose Hitler as evil, how could any rational person not oppose that as an even greater evil?
Love and forgiveness are great. You'd never get anyone to disagree there.
But to subject people to pain after the pain of life and death is simply sadistic. It is neither loving or good. Or for that matter just. But the deluded will convince themselves of anything. Invisible realms, reanimated bodies. Reanimated bodies reanimated to feel pain. It's pathetic.
The sooner the light of reason and science crush some of these ancient and harmful beliefs the better for society.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
HappyNat, leon -- You completely missed the point. I was merely pointing out that Christians do not WANT anyone to go to hell as was implied by speedwell's post.
And leon, I do not live in fear. Christians do not try to be good in order to get into heaven, that's the whole point of Scripture, grace. No one can be good enough to EARN their way into heaven.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Frank:
If one cannot "earn" one's way into heaven, does god just choose the hellbound by lottery?
I always thought one "earned" admittance to heaven by obeying the 10 commandments and loving JC and all that stuff. Was i misled in my youth?? Does this mean Hitler could be in heaven if the grace of god lets him in?
So HITLER could be in heaven?? (he did believe in jesus after all, so he has me beat in that respect). That's quite a just god you got there.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
GeneralZod -- If you were always taught that one earned admittance into heaven by obeying the 10 commandments, etc. then, yes, you were misled. That is NOT the message of the Bible at all. The message of the Bible is quite the opposite. The central message is this: no one is capable of doing anything to earn their way into heaven. We are all in need of grace. That's where Jesus comes in. His death paid the penalty for our sin. Our admittance into heaven is based on our recognizing our sinful nature, confessing it before God, and accepting on faith Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. The central message of the entire Bible is grace.
With regard to Hitler: Yes, I've heard he professed to be a Christian, too. However, the Bible also says that true Christians will be known by their "fruits," i.e. the way they conduct themselves. Certain elements will be present in their personalities. These traits were not present in Hitler as far as I can tell. His ruthless behavior runs completely contrary to any profession he may have made concerning Christ. And while it is true only God can see the heart of man, it is also true that we can catch a clue by the outward behavior. I'm fairly certain Hitler was no Christian, regardless of what he said.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Frank, stop wasting your time with that bullshit and join the human race. Don't you see the bigotry and irrationality that is inherent in your religion and its bible is doing so much harm to the world we live in?
You are personally responsible, and you will be held responsible in this life, not in the next.
You seem like you have the capacity for reason. Use it.
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Dear Frank,
Respectfully, I ask you to stop trying to enlighten people here. They do not wish to be enlightend. The people here do not like religion. They feel that religion is their nemesis, that it seeks to harm those not taken by it. Further, that it DOES harm those who ARE taken by it. This is not an unusual or hateful belief, for it is in many ways true. People have discriminated against atheists since history began. People have been hurt or even died while defending or professing their faith. Most here were not born atheists, so they are quite aware of religion. They have denounced religion simply because they believe there is not amply evidence to support it. This also is a very exceptable belief, and not hateful at all. I, quite simply, have found enough evidence to support religion. I assume you have, too. Try to see things from their point of view: You are trying to unknowingly convert them to a form of fanaticism that could lead them to pain, death or, at the very least, futility. They are defensive. I understand this. I suggest you try to do the same. There are people in this world to save, so save them. There is no one here to save.
Sincerely,
Citizen F
[Edit] November 1, 2004
"Our admittance into heaven is based on our recognizing our sinful nature, confessing it before God, and accepting on faith Christ's sacrifice on our behalf." Note the very special language Christians had to develop to put forth these ideas. Not that it's difficult to say it in plain language, but it just doesn't sound so good:
1. "recognizing our sinful nature": If you can't control those urges you get when your 15 year old daughter parades through the house, it's just your sinful nature, but you're really going to need a lot of grace...
2. "confessing it before God": God's a voyeur and wants to hear all the details. If you are a Catholic, He has agents to hear all the confessions. If you are a Protestant, He has miraculous powers to hear millions of confessions and prayers simultaneously.
3. "Accepting on faith": Stop trying to use your reason. It's only good for things like improving agriculture and transportation so we no longer need famines to carry away the excess population, exterminating smallpox, printing books so cheaply everyone can have some (instead of having to wait until Sunday for the priest to read a bit out the only book in the village), and so on. But all that's only "good works", it doesn't count for what is really important, which is whether you personally go to heaven. (But maybe you should have given those people you murdered a few minutes to pray so they might have got to heaven too.)
4. "Christ's sacrifice on our behalf": Judaism began to become more than desert savages' mythology when Abraham "heard" his God tell him not to sacrifice his children. Christianity began when God sacrificed his own son, instead of simply changing old laws with excessive penalties. What a terrible old savage Christians worship in God the Father. I can understand why Catholics prefer to pray to a dead human (a saint or Mary) to ask Jesus to take up their case with his parental unit...
[Edit] November 1, 2004
I might add that religion has not only caused "harm those that ARE taken by it", but also countless innocent bystanders as well.
(And I'll wait for AK aka SKS to post about how we were all born as atheists.)
Also I am, in all sincerity, curious as to what the evidence is. If you don't want to post a thread in the forums, feel free to email me. Because I can't, for the life of me, think of any evidence at all...
[Edit] November 1, 2004
So Frank, it is possible that Hitler is in heaven, right? I mean, if he renounced his sins and accepted Jesus C. into his heart (and not his kidneys) a split second before his suicide was complete, he gets a fresh start via god's magic grace and gets to go live in heaven with all his dead loved ones and many of the people he had killed. It may be unlikely, but it is not impossible, right? Or am missing something here?
[Edit] November 1, 2004
Citizen F -- I appreciate the polite tone of your suggestion but ask you to consider two things:
First: If you have been reading my posts on this website for very long you would realize I'm not trying to "save" anyone. My comments are almost never evangelistic in nature and I only use Scripture when relevant to the topic. My post to GeneralZod only sounded evangelistic because GeneralZod specifically asked about "earning" one's way into heaven. My whole reason for commenting on this website is to be challenged by those who hold to a different view than I do. I enjoy it here because I have found most of the people here to be thoughtful and courteous and they make me think about things. I like that. I've not misrepresented myself to them nor have I tried to trick them into any discussion about their own spiritual condition etc. I will likely continue to discuss here unless the vast majority of people here grow tired of discussing with me and invite me to leave. I hope that doesn't happen.
Second: You claim to have found enough evidence to support your own belief in religion. I don't know if that means Christian, Muslim, Jew, whatever. I'm a Christian. Because I am, I hold to the teachings of the Bible. You may or may not be familiar with the apostle Paul. Before his conversion he was not merely ambivolent toward Christianity but openly hostile. Certainly we would have considered him an unlikely candidate to be "saved." But the Bible teaches that it is God who changes the hearts of men and did so in Paul's case. I completely understand the attitudes of the people here are atheistic in nature (the name of the website was my first clue). And while I am not actively trying to witness or otherwise evangelize here I also understand that (according to the Bible) God is able to change the heart of anyone if He chooses. That includes everyone here. So, with regard to your comment that there is no one here to be saved, I will merely say, who are we to determine who is and is not to be saved? So, if it's all the same to you, I'd like to stay here and chat with these people. While they are clearly not Christians I find them to be good company.
[Edit] November 2, 2004
GeneralZod -- The Bible is clear that God is capable of saving anyone. As we are all guilty in the eyes of God, we are all in need of grace. No one is able to enter into heaven by the merits of their works. So, the short answer to your question is yes, it is possible for God to save Hitler. But as I said before, according to his actions there is very little evidence to indicate he ever experienced God's grace.
[Edit] November 2, 2004
Animals don't talk, the world doesn't flood, people don't rise from the dead, there are no dragons, worldwide floods, or angels.
It's a book of make-believe stories and you're basing your life on it, Frank.
Do you realize how absolutely tragic that is?
[Edit] November 2, 2004
Frank, I see you are over in this thread also.
you said:
'Our admittance into heaven is based on our recognizing our sinful nature, confessing it before God, and accepting on faith Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. The central message of the entire Bible is grace'
Ok, so then Hitler can and should be in Heaven. He clearly believed from his writings and honestly thought he was doing Gods will. Just like every other religious nut out there. I can accept this if you can.
Where he goes is pretty irrevelant to me. Whats worse is that the jews who didn't and don't believe in Jesus went from the gas chamber to hell. That should be revelant to everyone.
you said:
'it is possible for God to save Hitler. But as I said before, according to his actions there is very little evidence to indicate he ever experienced God's grace.'
Since when did any evidence matter to you. You have no evidence for any of your beliefs except some extreme circular logic. So now you want evidence when it suits your purposes. Understand Frank, I like you. It's just that you have never said anything, not one thing, that couldn't be said about any other faith now or past. The rest of what you say stands contrary to known science and/or philosophy.
You need to really except the fact that you are an atheist to other religions outside your own.
you said:
'While they are clearly not Christians I find them to be good company'
Stick around Frank and you'll see those whose life is based on reason and logic are the salt of the Earth. Those who make it move and progress. In many ways they are the actual 'Christians' people are so fond of attempting to be. Why are they clearly 'not Christians'? they love, laugh, are loyal and patriotic. They are the best the planet has to offer. This is far more 'Christian' than many who claim the title on belief alone.
On that note I'm out on this one also Frank.
[Edit] November 2, 2004
Frank,
I haven't been around here as much as you have, but I've been around people like you my whole life. I'm a Catholic and, as a result, I've been told I'm going to hell. I've been told I think protestants are going to hell, which I've never thought. I've been told I believe all sorts of crazy things and, basically, that I need to convert or face the fire. I find all of these claims laughable. I know what I believe and I believe it because of years of reflection and realization. But while I hold my beliefs close to me, I know that others, even atheists and Jews, hold their beliefs just as close. And trivializing their beliefs is just as insulting as when they trivializing mine. That's all I'm trying to say.
[Edit] November 5, 2004
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