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	<title>Comments on: Suffer the Little Children</title>
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		<title>By: UnspeakableyViolentJane</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36814</link>
		<dc:creator>UnspeakableyViolentJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36814</guid>
		<description>Hi Ashli,

I&#039;m so sorry that you regret your abortion and that it haunts you.  I&#039;m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I wish we could erase your pain :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ashli,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so sorry that you regret your abortion and that it haunts you.  I&#8217;m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I wish we could erase your pain <img src='http://ravingatheist.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Irreligious</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36789</link>
		<dc:creator>Irreligious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36789</guid>
		<description>And to clarify, James Stephenson, atheists don&#039;t have a set unverifiable beliefs to impose on others. I do not insist that you become an atheist, like me. I don&#039;t insist you take on a gay lover or avoid having sex. I do not demand that your wife have an abortion. I do not demand that you accept evolution and start preaching it in your churches. 

In fact, the vast majority of people empowered to set public policy claim to be Christians.

Now imagine if Muslims had the numbers and the authority to advocate having their religious beliefs imposed on the American public at large. Imagine it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to clarify, James Stephenson, atheists don&#8217;t have a set unverifiable beliefs to impose on others. I do not insist that you become an atheist, like me. I don&#8217;t insist you take on a gay lover or avoid having sex. I do not demand that your wife have an abortion. I do not demand that you accept evolution and start preaching it in your churches. </p>
<p>In fact, the vast majority of people empowered to set public policy claim to be Christians.</p>
<p>Now imagine if Muslims had the numbers and the authority to advocate having their religious beliefs imposed on the American public at large. Imagine it.</p>
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		<title>By: Irreligious</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36785</link>
		<dc:creator>Irreligious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36785</guid>
		<description>James Stephenson wrote:
&lt;em&gt;&quot;Don’t others alter public policy based upon their beliefs?&quot;
&lt;/em&gt;
Examples, please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Stephenson wrote:<br />
<em>&#8220;Don’t others alter public policy based upon their beliefs?&#8221;<br />
</em><br />
Examples, please?</p>
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		<title>By: Ashli</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36783</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36783</guid>
		<description>Jahrta,
Thanks for your kind comment.  That was really sweet!

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jahrta,<br />
Thanks for your kind comment.  That was really sweet!</p>
<p> <img src='http://ravingatheist.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ashli</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36781</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36781</guid>
		<description>Violent Jane,
You know what would be of great personal benefit?  If I were to convince myself that losing my child in a second trimester abortion was a &quot;necessary sorrow.&quot;  Or even just necessary, sans sorrow.  If I were to convince myself that a gestating human being with arms and legs but a head shape,  stature and lung function that weren&#039;t quite like mine...was only a potential child, as potential as the prepubescent thoughts of motherhood somewhere way off in the future, after the college degree and the marriage proposal and the house with the white picket fence.  That would be sublime.  The personal gain would be monumental.  It would mean freedom from the unbelievable pain that I live with.  I could probably agree politically with everyone in my family and therefore I might actually have family that spoke to me.  I&#039;d get some of my best friends back.  My kids would probably be happier, because their mom would be happier.  Etc.  Man, if I could just convince myself.  But I can&#039;t, because despite the marvelous things that I would gain it&#039;s not rational, it contradicts science, it isn&#039;t true.

I know that atheists often hold a certain view of  Christian intellect, imagining that we  couldn&#039;t possibly come to our conclusions honestly, intellectually or reasonably.  It had to have been inherited or born of some tragedy that one of less psychic fortitude otherwise couldn&#039;t handle.  It is thought that God is a crutch invented by people who are afraid to think, afraid to feel, afraid to die and disappear forever.

I am not afraid to think or to feel, and there is something wonderfully comforting about the thought of dying and disappearing forever.

Yet  I&#039;m a Christian.

Re: God: Benevolence is love.  Supernatural and &quot;God&quot; are not the issues, imho.  The issues are omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and benevolence.  And each individual has to consider and argue with himself those things.  Certainly, the conclusion cannot be won in an argument with someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Violent Jane,<br />
You know what would be of great personal benefit?  If I were to convince myself that losing my child in a second trimester abortion was a &#8220;necessary sorrow.&#8221;  Or even just necessary, sans sorrow.  If I were to convince myself that a gestating human being with arms and legs but a head shape,  stature and lung function that weren&#8217;t quite like mine&#8230;was only a potential child, as potential as the prepubescent thoughts of motherhood somewhere way off in the future, after the college degree and the marriage proposal and the house with the white picket fence.  That would be sublime.  The personal gain would be monumental.  It would mean freedom from the unbelievable pain that I live with.  I could probably agree politically with everyone in my family and therefore I might actually have family that spoke to me.  I&#8217;d get some of my best friends back.  My kids would probably be happier, because their mom would be happier.  Etc.  Man, if I could just convince myself.  But I can&#8217;t, because despite the marvelous things that I would gain it&#8217;s not rational, it contradicts science, it isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<p>I know that atheists often hold a certain view of  Christian intellect, imagining that we  couldn&#8217;t possibly come to our conclusions honestly, intellectually or reasonably.  It had to have been inherited or born of some tragedy that one of less psychic fortitude otherwise couldn&#8217;t handle.  It is thought that God is a crutch invented by people who are afraid to think, afraid to feel, afraid to die and disappear forever.</p>
<p>I am not afraid to think or to feel, and there is something wonderfully comforting about the thought of dying and disappearing forever.</p>
<p>Yet  I&#8217;m a Christian.</p>
<p>Re: God: Benevolence is love.  Supernatural and &#8220;God&#8221; are not the issues, imho.  The issues are omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and benevolence.  And each individual has to consider and argue with himself those things.  Certainly, the conclusion cannot be won in an argument with someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Some Random Guy</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36340</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Random Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36340</guid>
		<description>Thought so, Jahrta.  Run along now.  PZ, has other orders for his minions I&#039;m sure.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0xYc8zXvw

Jahrta:  &quot;It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points.&quot;

ROFLMAO!  You&#039;re killin&#039; me.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought so, Jahrta.  Run along now.  PZ, has other orders for his minions I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0xYc8zXvw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0xYc8zXvw</a></p>
<p>Jahrta:  &#8220;It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points.&#8221;</p>
<p>ROFLMAO!  You&#8217;re killin&#8217; me.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine the Soccer Mom</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36317</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine the Soccer Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36317</guid>
		<description>GOD BLESS YOU FOR THIS!  My then-two-year-old did not know what was happening, only that I suddenly was gone for several days at a time while I was in the hospital for HG.  It can&#039;t be easy for a small child to understand what is happening when Mommy suddenly cannot care for him or even herself.


I see I need to subscribe to the blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GOD BLESS YOU FOR THIS!  My then-two-year-old did not know what was happening, only that I suddenly was gone for several days at a time while I was in the hospital for HG.  It can&#8217;t be easy for a small child to understand what is happening when Mommy suddenly cannot care for him or even herself.</p>
<p>I see I need to subscribe to the blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Jahrta</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36311</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahrta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36311</guid>
		<description>SRG - you are a retard of some impressive stripe, but I don&#039;t care what you believe. You are a douche bag if ever there was one. You will never convert me with helplessly divergent claptrap, and I will never convince you through reason. It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points. Enjoy being a christian apologist pseudo-scientific waste of space. You are a wad that should he been swallowed, or deposited in someone&#039;s backdoor, and I wash my hands of you. Have fun flinging poo at someone who won&#039;t be there to waste any more time on your stupidity. Enjoy your delusion - I hear it&#039;s simply divine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SRG &#8211; you are a retard of some impressive stripe, but I don&#8217;t care what you believe. You are a douche bag if ever there was one. You will never convert me with helplessly divergent claptrap, and I will never convince you through reason. It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points. Enjoy being a christian apologist pseudo-scientific waste of space. You are a wad that should he been swallowed, or deposited in someone&#8217;s backdoor, and I wash my hands of you. Have fun flinging poo at someone who won&#8217;t be there to waste any more time on your stupidity. Enjoy your delusion &#8211; I hear it&#8217;s simply divine.</p>
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		<title>By: Some Random Guy</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36260</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Random Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36260</guid>
		<description>Apologies for being so off-topic (couldn&#039;t resist):

Jahrta, perhaps you have your own blog or another venue where you can school me on Law -vs- Theory and your wonderful new theodicy?  If not, I&#039;ll see you and your brown eye around the intertubes.

Regards,
not JAD (lol!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for being so off-topic (couldn&#8217;t resist):</p>
<p>Jahrta, perhaps you have your own blog or another venue where you can school me on Law -vs- Theory and your wonderful new theodicy?  If not, I&#8217;ll see you and your brown eye around the intertubes.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
not JAD (lol!)</p>
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		<title>By: Some Random Guy</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2008/12/suffer-the-little-children/comment-page-2/#comment-36253</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Random Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2257#comment-36253</guid>
		<description>&quot;“Some Random Guy”? Are you John Davison by any chance?&quot; 

No.

&quot;At any rate, are you really and truly this desperate for a mental reaming? Do you actually want to go toe-to-toe with me, Mr. Random?&quot;


Gotta love a pseudo intellect poseur and &lt;em&gt;internet&lt;/em&gt; tough guy.  Deadly combo.  The ladies must love you.  But, yeah, ream my mentals away, douche bag.

 This wasn&#039;t it, was it? 


&quot; I already have a huge advantage over you in any debate, because I don’t believe in living dead jewish carpenters that are their own fathers who killed themselves to die for sins I wasn’t around to commit, so that he could save us all from his father’s/his own wrath by burning forever in a lake of fire (but he loves us).&quot;

Thought we were talkin&#039; law versus theory and your complete mangling of the two, smart guy.  You evangelicals can&#039;t help yourself can you?


&quot; Is that basically what you believe?&quot;

No.


&quot; Shall we have a little discussion on these types of things before we tackle concepts such as gravity?&quot;

I&#039;d change topics if I were you, too.

&quot; By the way, Newton was a product of his time and environment, and would have probably been a Buddhist if he grew up in Japan...&quot;

Do you read this tripe before you post it?  Newton wrote more on theology than he did science, surely you can point to his writings instead of your  &quot;would have probably been a&quot; theological geography hypothesis.

&quot;does that help or weaken the case for christianity?&quot;

Huh; non-sequitor.  Seriously man, on a scale from one to ten, how drunk are you right now?

&quot; I didn’t say a theist was incapable of understing thermodynamics and other scientific principles, but I am never disappointed by the idiots who parrot the moronic shit they’re told by people is positions of authority in their places of worship when those people attempt to wax poetic on scientific principles. MOST of the time, they’re speaking directly out of their brown eye.&quot;

Pot, meet Kettle.



Ready when you are, smart guy.  Laws of motion/gravity versus theories of gravity (already schooled you on that, so you can pick it up there if you&#039;d like) and how they are analagous to evolutioanry theory... and cliffs or something.  Oh,... and your new No True Scotsman theological geography hypothesis.  Dazzle me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“Some Random Guy”? Are you John Davison by any chance?&#8221; </p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>&#8220;At any rate, are you really and truly this desperate for a mental reaming? Do you actually want to go toe-to-toe with me, Mr. Random?&#8221;</p>
<p>Gotta love a pseudo intellect poseur and <em>internet</em> tough guy.  Deadly combo.  The ladies must love you.  But, yeah, ream my mentals away, douche bag.</p>
<p> This wasn&#8217;t it, was it? </p>
<p>&#8221; I already have a huge advantage over you in any debate, because I don’t believe in living dead jewish carpenters that are their own fathers who killed themselves to die for sins I wasn’t around to commit, so that he could save us all from his father’s/his own wrath by burning forever in a lake of fire (but he loves us).&#8221;</p>
<p>Thought we were talkin&#8217; law versus theory and your complete mangling of the two, smart guy.  You evangelicals can&#8217;t help yourself can you?</p>
<p>&#8221; Is that basically what you believe?&#8221;</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>&#8221; Shall we have a little discussion on these types of things before we tackle concepts such as gravity?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d change topics if I were you, too.</p>
<p>&#8221; By the way, Newton was a product of his time and environment, and would have probably been a Buddhist if he grew up in Japan&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you read this tripe before you post it?  Newton wrote more on theology than he did science, surely you can point to his writings instead of your  &#8220;would have probably been a&#8221; theological geography hypothesis.</p>
<p>&#8220;does that help or weaken the case for christianity?&#8221;</p>
<p>Huh; non-sequitor.  Seriously man, on a scale from one to ten, how drunk are you right now?</p>
<p>&#8221; I didn’t say a theist was incapable of understing thermodynamics and other scientific principles, but I am never disappointed by the idiots who parrot the moronic shit they’re told by people is positions of authority in their places of worship when those people attempt to wax poetic on scientific principles. MOST of the time, they’re speaking directly out of their brown eye.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pot, meet Kettle.</p>
<p>Ready when you are, smart guy.  Laws of motion/gravity versus theories of gravity (already schooled you on that, so you can pick it up there if you&#8217;d like) and how they are analagous to evolutioanry theory&#8230; and cliffs or something.  Oh,&#8230; and your new No True Scotsman theological geography hypothesis.  Dazzle me.</p>
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