The Raving Theist

Dedicated to Jesus Christ, Now and Forever

Suffer the Little Children

December 24, 2008 | 49 Comments

Many of the children who will be gathering around Christmas trees tomorrow morning would not be here but for the kindness of my dear friend Ashli Foshee McCall. During my blogging hiatus, Dawn Eden and I became involved in the promotion and distribution of her book Beyond Morning Sickness: Battling Hyperemesis Gravidarum, a comprehensive, 500-page medically-reviewed guide to treatment option for a debilitating pregnancy disease which effectively makes the mother allergic to the fetus. Apart from sending free copies of the book to approximately 1,000 Ob/Gyns and any woman who wrote to her, Ashli has worked with the suffering women, their families and their doctors over the phone, in e-mails and in person to ensure that the pregnancy is brought to term. The glowing reviews of her book at Amazon by HG sufferers are but a small testament to the selfless dedication of this devout Christian homeschooling mother.

Ashli’s heart-wrenching work is often made more difficult by the pressure exerted by insurance companies, medical care providers, family members and friends to abort. Also terrible is the ordeal experienced by the bedridden mothers who become unable to attend to the needs of their other children. But worst of all can be the suffering of those children themselves, who are often bewildered by the seeming abandonment and frightened by their mothers’ plight.

So it is with immense pride that I announce that early next year, Ashli will publish a children’s book for the youngest and often overlooked victims of HG. Mama Has Hyperemesis Gravidarum (But Only For a While) will be a professionally-illustrated, full-color work designed to help gently prepare children for some of the negative realities of living with a pregnant mom who is suffering from HG. They will be comforted and encouraged by the recurring message that HG will end, and warmly reminded of pregnancy’s sweet reward.

We would like to place this book in the hands of every family that could benefit from it. As you celebrate the birth of our Savior tomorrow, I hope you will consider helping others celebrate the birth and lives of the precious little children He asked us to suffer to come unto Him.
If you write to Ashli at ashli@beyondmorningsickness.com, she will arrange, when the the books are available, to send a copy to one of the doctors on this list, or directly to the family of an HG sufferer. The total cost for this meaningful gift will be under $20, and one that will keep giving for many, many Christmases to come.

Comments

49 Responses to “Suffer the Little Children”

  1. Jennifer (Conversion Diary)
    December 24th, 2008 @ 3:16 pm

    What a wonderful, much-needed project. Thanks for your work on it!

  2. StillRational
    December 24th, 2008 @ 4:23 pm

    didn’t you say a while back you wouldn’t make any proclamations one way or the other since that would by default say all others were wrong – and you were committed to not offending or however you put it?  or should that only apply to atheists.  you sure change your commitments easily – and go back on your word – guess that’s what the lord’ll do for you.  and – maybe i’m wrong – but i thought you took part in the unforgivable sin.

  3. Matthew
    December 24th, 2008 @ 10:25 pm

    Now that you have been brainwashed into a cult, please remove this blog from the url ravingathiest.com

  4. Cthulance
    December 24th, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

    Mama Has Hyperemesis Gravidarum (But Only For a While)

    Catchy title, should be a hit among children.

    This has got to be some kind of joke.

  5. lol
    December 25th, 2008 @ 3:47 am

    lol lol lol poe.

  6. Pansy Moss
    December 25th, 2008 @ 11:49 am

    Mama Has Hyperemesis Gravidarum (But Only For a While) will be a professionally-illustrated, full-color work designed to help gently prepare children for some of the negative realities of living with a pregnant mom who is suffering from HG. They will be comforted and encouraged by the recurring message that HG will end, and warmly reminded of pregnancy’s sweet reward.
    —————————–

    I never had HG, but  just the regular garden variety morning sickness, and it is so debilitating for the first 3-4 months of pregnancy. What makes it horrible is how my ability to be a good mother, and doing pretty much anything productive comes to a screeching halt. I always worry about how it will affect the family as a whole. I can see how this book to help the children who have to watch Mommy be ill, which is scary enough in and of itself, but also have to sacrifice their comforting routines can be of a great help to a family. It’s not as if kids “get it” immediately without a good explanation at their level.

  7. Melissa
    December 25th, 2008 @ 11:05 pm

    I’m delighted to see you posting the good news (of both kinds!!). Congratulations to Ashli (and to you for devoting your time and resources to this cause) and for already jumping in so swiftly in sharing your faith!! :)

    I know that you have already sent shock waves across the internet, and I know the ripples will spread to the far corners of the Earth! I can’t wait until the world can hear the whole story!! But, we all know how you like to build suspense…..though don’t delay too long. These last days are few!! God bless you RT!!

  8. Cthulance
    December 25th, 2008 @ 11:53 pm

    …..though don’t delay too long. These last days are few!!

    Christians have been making the above ridiculous claim for thousands of years now.

  9. Jahrta
    December 26th, 2008 @ 12:08 pm

    Melisa, by the bulk of your messages here I can’t help but get the impression that you want the world to end. Doesn’t that make you a raving fucking lunatic? Just curious…

    …also, by clamoring for the end of the world, and with it, every life on the planet, doesn’t that also make you evil for wishing for the destruction of other people? Wouldn’t that send you to hell for your pride alone? And wouldn’t that make your god a mass murdered? If you believe in the literal story of Noah’s ark, then you already believe your god is a mass murderer. Of course, if you believe anything in the bible is literal, it also makes you a complete and total fucking idiot. But we already knew that, now didn’t we? :)

    Toodles, fuitcake

  10. Melissa
    December 26th, 2008 @ 12:29 pm

    I’m not eager for the world to end. All I know is that it will. The Lord is patient and not willing that anyone should perish. 2 Peter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

    Because of His love, grace, and mercy towards His children, He is holding off on pouring out His judgment. Just like any parent, you don’t want to have to punish your children that you love so much. You want to give them every chance to make the right choice and do the right thing.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 says this: “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” It’s your choice if you don’t want to believe what you consider to be “foolishness.” But to those of us who believe in the truth, it is pure joy.

    Furthermore, you all question how the Bible is fulfilled. Well, my friends, you fulfill it every day when you persecute us. 1 Corinthians 4:10-13 says:  “We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.”

    So, us “fools” will continue to endure your persecution and brutal treatment. We will answer kindly to your slander. We have no reason to be angry or unkind because we have peace and joy. No amount of name-calling or angry words can steal my joy. “That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day.” (2 Timothy 1:12)

    I will continue “wasting” my prayers on all of you. :) Have a great day!!!

  11. Jahrta
    December 26th, 2008 @ 12:51 pm

    “my book said you’d be mean to me for having ridiculous notions, and looky here, you are! It must be true! praise jeebus!” While your idiotic, contradictory, vile and mysogynistic beliefs would be enough on their own to ridicule you, that isn’t the real reason atheists openly mock stupidity. If you all went on your daily activities and left the rest of the world the fuck alone to flourish and prosper, that would b fine. You wouldn’t hear another word from me to “persecute” you. By the way, what the fuck would you know of persecution, you self-righteous stain? I’ve had relatives die in concentration camps for their beliefs…that’s persecution, so bear with me while we call you names for fostering beliefs in invisible genies. The real reason atheists mock you, is because people like you try, and often succeed, at altering public policy to mesh with their personal beliefs. It’s because of people like you that certain school districts were under a lot of pressure to teach “intelligent design” alongside the very well-established theory of evolution (and if you claim “it’s just a theory” maybe you’d care to test the theory of gravity by walking off a cliff). People like you are the reason we can’t go forward with stem cell research.  People like you are the reason they weren’t distributing condoms in Africa, a country to ass-backwards technology-wise that it is a widely held belief that sex with a virgin is the only cure for AIDS. How do the missionaries try to combat the disease? You guessed it – with the bible. Turns out the bible isn’y very effective against immuno-deficiency viruses. As far as belief being “pure joy” is concerned, I’ve both heard it said and seen with my own eyes that ignorance is bliss. That having been said, you must be fucking ecstatic.

  12. BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)
    December 26th, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

    Jahrta,
    Heaven or Hell doesn’t exist in the make believe materialist world in which you believe (a belif you hold with the same blind Faith you accuse others of having BTW). 

    So why are you wasting your time raging on poor Melissa & lamenting RA conversion when you could be out enjoying your limited finite existence?

    What? You have no chicks (or dudes if you are so inclined) lined up to fornicate with?

    With that snarky attitude I’m not suprised.

  13. angele
    December 26th, 2008 @ 4:09 pm

    That’s “My McCall”!!!!  This woman is one of my most amazing blessings!

    Beyond Morning Sickness was a a total eye opener for those who have little experience with HG. Ashli writes in such a fashion that the reader actually feels as though he/she has laced up and taken a mile long walk in the shoes of the woman with HG. 

    The personal stories wer both triumphant and heart wrenching.

    If her childrens book is half as amazing as BMS, I want to buy the very first copy!!!!!!

    High 5’s Mc Call!

    Love, 

    Angele
     

  14. Carbon Monoxide
    December 26th, 2008 @ 7:03 pm

    I see the mature, polite, civil paragons of civilization have begun commenting on this post as well.

    I can’t wait until the world can finally be run by the well mannered atheists.
     

  15. Cthulance
    December 26th, 2008 @ 10:19 pm

    Because of His love, grace, and mercy towards His children, He is holding off on pouring out His judgment.

    Thank you for speaking for God and informing us of both what he’s doing and why he is doing it.

    It’s nice to know that we have an infallible personal mouthpiece for God in you, Melissa.

    P.S. How many thousands of years more will God be holding off his wrath? I figure it’s safe to ask you, given that you speak so confidently on behalf of the Almighty.

  16. Cthulance
    December 26th, 2008 @ 11:28 pm

    I see the mature, polite, civil paragons of civilization have begun commenting on this post as well.
    Yes. Thank goodness you’ve arrived (you mature, polite, civil paragon of civilization you!).
    I can’t wait until the world can finally be run by the well mannered atheists.
    As opposed to the deluded theists who’ve traditionally run the world.

  17. F.O.
    December 27th, 2008 @ 5:43 am

    @Jahrta:  Well spoken!

  18. Pansy Moss
    December 27th, 2008 @ 7:22 pm

    established theory of evolution (and if you claim “it’s just a theory” maybe you’d care to test the theory of gravity by walking off a cliff).

    I was taught gravity (‘The Law of Gravity”) was a law, not a theory (unlike the “Theory of Evolution”).

  19. Frank Oswalt
    December 28th, 2008 @ 5:06 am

    @Pansy Moss (#18): See, that’s the problem with being homeschooled by your mum rather than receiving a proper education: The “Law of Gravity”, by which I assume you mean Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation is a descriptive statement about the force of attraction between two masses. It does not explain gravity itself. This is the task of a “Theory of Gravity” (such as Newton’s Theory of Gravity or the General Theory of Relativity).

    If you want “Laws”, these can be found within the Theory of Evolution as well. For example Mendels Genetic Laws (the Law of Dominance, the Law of Segregation, the Law of Independent Assortment).

    Get a basic grip of scientific terminology before you throw about words like “law” and “theory”.

  20. Lily
    December 28th, 2008 @ 7:44 am

    Why is it that atheists feel such a need to be insulting? If Pansy is wrong (and she isn’t– “the law of gravity” has been widely used in public discourse and in popular writing for decades), would it not be enough to indicate that she has misunderstood something and to offer a correction? Not that we needed your pedantic “explanation”, since it was off-topic in the context of the remark Pansy was replying to.

    To0 bad “mum” didn’t teach you any manners.

  21. Pansy Moss
    December 28th, 2008 @ 5:38 pm

    Lily,

    After the insulting prejudiced first line, I didn’t bother to read on any more than if someone said “now, see, if you stopped eating fried chicken and listening to the gangsta rap, you would know a thing or two”. If there was a valid point to be made, I was too offended by the discrimination displayed to care to read on and absorb anything that might have been said.

  22. Ashli
    December 28th, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

    Angele, thank you so much for your sneaky li’l post over here! ;-)  

    You’re my hero, gurrrrl, and I love ya!
    (((((Angele)))))

  23. Joe
    December 29th, 2008 @ 7:30 am

    I’ve kept you on my blogroll for this long for you to go into this. Blah. What weak point in your life makes you think fairy tales will save you. So sad. I’ll see you in milk……

  24. Jahrta
    December 29th, 2008 @ 8:54 am

    BenYachov – are you familiar with an “ad hominem” attack? it’s when you’re too stupid to defend your position so you flame bait your opponent by making baseless claims. By the way, not that it’s any of your business, you wretched little crap weasel, but I’m married.
     
    Pansy – do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the difference between “theory” and “law” as these words pertain to the scientific communityand issues discussed therein. I won’t lambast you further for not knowing this if you simply did not come from a scientific background, but if you are going to discuss these things in a public forum, the onus is upon you to learn the terms if you want to be taken seriously.

  25. Pansy Moss
    December 29th, 2008 @ 10:49 am

    So does my ignorance transform evolution from a theory into a law?

    Funny thing is my only problem with evolution is that it is taught as if it were a law when it is not without specifying the difference. That is teaching science. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with that. And of course the horribly racist undertones bother me.

    Anyway, no need to “lambast” me, I’ll take my ignorant, non-scientific, but having the ability to spell self out of the line of fire.

  26. Unspeakably Violent Jane
    December 29th, 2008 @ 11:43 am

    Why did God create HG?

  27. nkb
    December 29th, 2008 @ 12:16 pm

    Pansy Moss: “So does my ignorance transform evolution from a theory into a law?”

    No, your ignorance merely shows that you are not heeding Jahrta’s advice, which is to at least get educated on what the terms “theory” and “law” mean in the scientific world.

    “Funny thing is my only problem with evolution is that it is taught as if it were a law when it is not without specifying the difference. That is teaching science.”

    Some more displayed ignorance.  Evolution is not being taught as a law.  Maybe you meant that it is being taught as fact, in which case you would be correct.

    Now, do you understand that evolution is indeed a fact, and that the method by which evolution happened is the theory part?
    Although, once again, please educate yourself as to what a scientific theory is (hint: it has little to do with the colloquial meaning it has these days).

    “My religious beliefs have nothing to do with that. And of course the horribly racist undertones bother me.”

    You keep telling yourself that your religion has no influence over whether you accept evolution.  That must be some coincidence that evolution-deniers are predominantly religious people.

    Also, what racist undertones are you talking about?  Is that more ignorance?

  28. Ashli
    December 29th, 2008 @ 2:04 pm

    Violent Jane,
    Funny you should ask.  I’m currently working on that book and, if you privately send your address to me at beyondmorningsickness.com, I’ll gladly send you a copy as soon as it is available.
    :-)

  29. jeney
    December 29th, 2008 @ 2:17 pm

    I had HG with all my pregnancies. 

    One of my kids drew a picture of me laying on the sofa, because it seemed that was all I could do.  It was very difficult and might I add – frequently disgusting.

    Good to hear about a book geared towards the kids.  I know how hard it was for them.

  30. Unspeakably Violent Jane
    December 29th, 2008 @ 3:37 pm

    Hi Ashli, 

    That is a very generous offer.  I mean that sincerely and I thank you.

    Still, it seems like all of us have something to gain from exploring the idea of a benevolent creator that adds unavoidable suffering to the design en mass.  And of course I don’t mean just HG, but suffering in general.

    What baffles me more than TRA’s (now TRT’s) flip flop is not his preference for the warm bath of religion vs the cold shower of enlightenment, but his seeming unwillingness to have that position challenged.

    ….so let’s start with something easy.  The definitions of benevolent, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent, supernatural,  and God.
     

  31. Jahrta
    December 29th, 2008 @ 3:40 pm

    I think we should all just accept that HG is just part of Odin’s plan, much the same as HIV, ichthyosis (yeah, look it up and tell me that happy li’l menu item was something cooked up by a loving god), genital warts, Carrot Top and Evangelical douche bags :)

  32. Maureen
    December 29th, 2008 @ 4:26 pm

    If you’re going to criticize Jewish and Christian beliefs, you should at least have some rudimentary knowledge of what they are. The whole point of the Eden story is that God _didn’t_ design that stuff in. Rebellion against God, by humans and angels, was what made the world malfunction. Malfunctions like death, disease, war, et al are our responsibility, not God’s.

    Unfortunately, God is of the school of admins and programmers who believe that users who make mistakes should be forced to live with them for a while, so they’ll learn better. Fortunately, God is also an admin who has committed to fixing these user-created malfunctions, and has reportedly finished a good chunk of it already. Unfortunately, the total fix will require a total systems upgrade at some unknown time Real Soon Now. Your personal part of the system may be taken offline at any time, so keep working on making sure you get your work done and your system saved!

  33. James Stephenson
    December 29th, 2008 @ 4:31 pm

    ‘The real reason atheists mock you, is because people like you try, and often succeed, at altering public policy to mesh with their personal beliefs.’

    – Jahrta.

    Don’t others alter public policy based upon their beliefs?

    Are Christians not allowed to participate in the democratic process?

  34. Unspeakably Violent Jane
    December 29th, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

    But Maureen,

    According to Christian teaching God knows the future, and knowing what is to happen he makes no changes – the game is fixed.

    Nor do I think you can argue the benevolence and goodness of an entity that holds offspring responsible for their ancestors transgression.  YOU didn’t eat the apple.  Is it fair for you to exist outside of Eden?

  35. Jahrta
    December 29th, 2008 @ 4:58 pm

    Maureen – it’s a bit condescending of you to assume that just because I’m an atheist now it must mean I was raised without a religious background, isn’t it? I was raised Jewish, I was Bar Mitzvahed, and I can read Hebrew. And I still find the entirety of religion to be about as useful as a nutty turd. Well actually that’s just not true – a turd after all can at least supply sustinence for insects and other creatures of less discriminating tastes.

  36. Jahrta
    December 29th, 2008 @ 5:00 pm

    By the way, if it hasn’t been said before, I’d like to state that Ashli seems like a very sweet woman and none of my earlier comments should have been taken as a direct attack on anything she has said or done. We now return to our regularly scheduled rant…

  37. Abortion Blogger
    December 29th, 2008 @ 6:35 pm

    Hey R(a)T,

    You getting married or something?

    “…..though don’t delay too long. These last days are few!!”


     

  38. Some Random Guy
    December 29th, 2008 @ 6:35 pm

    Jahrta:  “[…] well-established theory of evolution (and if you claim “it’s just a theory” maybe you’d care to test the theory of gravity by walking off a cliff)”

    It’s not the “theory of gravity” that says you’ll fall after walking off a cliff, smart guy – that’d be Newton’s Laws of Motion/Gravity (you know the ones; named for its author and ignorant creationist, Isaac Newton).  The “theory of gravity” says gravity is caused by massive objects curving space/time (General Theory of Relativity.)  Not sure what any of this has to do with common ancestry though, but it’s your point… perhaps you’d care to make it now?

    Jahrta:  “Pansy – do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the difference between “theory” and “law” as these words pertain to the scientific communityand[sic] issues discussed therein. I won’t lambast[sic] you further for not knowing this if you simply did not come from a scientific background, but if you are going to discuss these things in a public forum, the onus is upon you to learn the terms if you want to be taken seriously.”

    You self-proclaimed defenders of science are priceless.  You “come from a scientific background” do ya?

    “Evangelical douche bags”

    Evangelical atheists are the best!  By the way, you owe me a new irony meter, douche bag.

  39. Jahrta
    December 29th, 2008 @ 8:11 pm

    “Some Random Guy”? Are you John Davison by any chance? At any rate, are you really and truly this desperate for a mental reaming? Do you actually want to go toe-to-toe with me, Mr. Random? I already have a huge advantage over you in any debate, because I don’t believe in living dead jewish carpenters that are their own fathers who killed themselves to die for sins I wasn’t around to commit, so that he could save us all from his father’s/his own wrath by burning forever in a lake of fire (but he loves us). Is that basically what you believe? Shall we have a little discussion on these types of things before we tackle concepts such as gravity? By the way, Newton was a product of his time and environment, and would have probably been a Buddhist if he grew up in Japan – does that help or weaken the case for christianity? I didn’t say a theist was incapable of understing thermodynamics and other scientific principles, but I am never disappointed by the idiots who parrot the moronic shit they’re told by people is positions of authority in their places of worship when those people attempt to wax poetic on scientific principles. MOST of the time, they’re speaking directly out of their brown eye.

  40. Some Random Guy
    December 29th, 2008 @ 10:12 pm

    ““Some Random Guy”? Are you John Davison by any chance?”

    No.

    “At any rate, are you really and truly this desperate for a mental reaming? Do you actually want to go toe-to-toe with me, Mr. Random?”

    Gotta love a pseudo intellect poseur and internet tough guy.  Deadly combo.  The ladies must love you.  But, yeah, ream my mentals away, douche bag.

    This wasn’t it, was it?

    ” I already have a huge advantage over you in any debate, because I don’t believe in living dead jewish carpenters that are their own fathers who killed themselves to die for sins I wasn’t around to commit, so that he could save us all from his father’s/his own wrath by burning forever in a lake of fire (but he loves us).”

    Thought we were talkin’ law versus theory and your complete mangling of the two, smart guy.  You evangelicals can’t help yourself can you?

    ” Is that basically what you believe?”

    No.

    ” Shall we have a little discussion on these types of things before we tackle concepts such as gravity?”

    I’d change topics if I were you, too.

    ” By the way, Newton was a product of his time and environment, and would have probably been a Buddhist if he grew up in Japan…”

    Do you read this tripe before you post it?  Newton wrote more on theology than he did science, surely you can point to his writings instead of your  “would have probably been a” theological geography hypothesis.

    “does that help or weaken the case for christianity?”

    Huh; non-sequitor.  Seriously man, on a scale from one to ten, how drunk are you right now?

    ” I didn’t say a theist was incapable of understing thermodynamics and other scientific principles, but I am never disappointed by the idiots who parrot the moronic shit they’re told by people is positions of authority in their places of worship when those people attempt to wax poetic on scientific principles. MOST of the time, they’re speaking directly out of their brown eye.”

    Pot, meet Kettle.

    Ready when you are, smart guy.  Laws of motion/gravity versus theories of gravity (already schooled you on that, so you can pick it up there if you’d like) and how they are analagous to evolutioanry theory… and cliffs or something.  Oh,… and your new No True Scotsman theological geography hypothesis.  Dazzle me.

  41. Some Random Guy
    December 29th, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

    Apologies for being so off-topic (couldn’t resist):

    Jahrta, perhaps you have your own blog or another venue where you can school me on Law -vs- Theory and your wonderful new theodicy?  If not, I’ll see you and your brown eye around the intertubes.

    Regards,
    not JAD (lol!)

  42. Jahrta
    December 30th, 2008 @ 11:54 am

    SRG – you are a retard of some impressive stripe, but I don’t care what you believe. You are a douche bag if ever there was one. You will never convert me with helplessly divergent claptrap, and I will never convince you through reason. It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points. Enjoy being a christian apologist pseudo-scientific waste of space. You are a wad that should he been swallowed, or deposited in someone’s backdoor, and I wash my hands of you. Have fun flinging poo at someone who won’t be there to waste any more time on your stupidity. Enjoy your delusion – I hear it’s simply divine.

  43. Christine the Soccer Mom
    December 30th, 2008 @ 12:01 pm

    GOD BLESS YOU FOR THIS!  My then-two-year-old did not know what was happening, only that I suddenly was gone for several days at a time while I was in the hospital for HG.  It can’t be easy for a small child to understand what is happening when Mommy suddenly cannot care for him or even herself.

    I see I need to subscribe to the blog.

  44. Some Random Guy
    December 30th, 2008 @ 1:38 pm

    Thought so, Jahrta.  Run along now.  PZ, has other orders for his minions I’m sure.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0xYc8zXvw

    Jahrta:  “It is laughable beyond belief that you accuse me of avoiding topics while doing backflips and loop-de-loops to avoid my earlier points.”

    ROFLMAO!  You’re killin’ me.

  45. Ashli
    January 2nd, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

    Violent Jane,
    You know what would be of great personal benefit?  If I were to convince myself that losing my child in a second trimester abortion was a “necessary sorrow.”  Or even just necessary, sans sorrow.  If I were to convince myself that a gestating human being with arms and legs but a head shape,  stature and lung function that weren’t quite like mine…was only a potential child, as potential as the prepubescent thoughts of motherhood somewhere way off in the future, after the college degree and the marriage proposal and the house with the white picket fence.  That would be sublime.  The personal gain would be monumental.  It would mean freedom from the unbelievable pain that I live with.  I could probably agree politically with everyone in my family and therefore I might actually have family that spoke to me.  I’d get some of my best friends back.  My kids would probably be happier, because their mom would be happier.  Etc.  Man, if I could just convince myself.  But I can’t, because despite the marvelous things that I would gain it’s not rational, it contradicts science, it isn’t true.

    I know that atheists often hold a certain view of  Christian intellect, imagining that we  couldn’t possibly come to our conclusions honestly, intellectually or reasonably.  It had to have been inherited or born of some tragedy that one of less psychic fortitude otherwise couldn’t handle.  It is thought that God is a crutch invented by people who are afraid to think, afraid to feel, afraid to die and disappear forever.

    I am not afraid to think or to feel, and there is something wonderfully comforting about the thought of dying and disappearing forever.

    Yet  I’m a Christian.

    Re: God: Benevolence is love.  Supernatural and “God” are not the issues, imho.  The issues are omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and benevolence.  And each individual has to consider and argue with himself those things.  Certainly, the conclusion cannot be won in an argument with someone else.

  46. Ashli
    January 2nd, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

    Jahrta,
    Thanks for your kind comment.  That was really sweet!

    :-)

  47. Irreligious
    January 2nd, 2009 @ 3:22 pm

    James Stephenson wrote:
    “Don’t others alter public policy based upon their beliefs?”

    Examples, please?

  48. Irreligious
    January 2nd, 2009 @ 4:05 pm

    And to clarify, James Stephenson, atheists don’t have a set unverifiable beliefs to impose on others. I do not insist that you become an atheist, like me. I don’t insist you take on a gay lover or avoid having sex. I do not demand that your wife have an abortion. I do not demand that you accept evolution and start preaching it in your churches. 

    In fact, the vast majority of people empowered to set public policy claim to be Christians.

    Now imagine if Muslims had the numbers and the authority to advocate having their religious beliefs imposed on the American public at large. Imagine it.

  49. UnspeakableyViolentJane
    January 2nd, 2009 @ 8:09 pm

    Hi Ashli,

    I’m so sorry that you regret your abortion and that it haunts you.  I’m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I wish we could erase your pain :(

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