The Raving Theist

Dedicated to Jesus Christ, Now and Forever

F__ing Atheists

April 6, 2006 | 23 Comments

One of the worst sins you can commit in America is offending religious sensitivities, even the sensitivities of Christ-deniers. A few years back Hillary Clinton caught flak for calling an aide a fucking Jew bastard, and today the only issue being discussed in connection a riot by violent Hasidim is whether a police officer attempted to disperse the mob by shouting “get the fucking Jews out of here.” But complaints of discrimination against atheists are treated a big joke, even when the offense involves more than mere name-calling. Beth Birnbaum describes her experience over the past half-century:

They’ve been bugging me since Kindergarten, when I refused to say the “Under God” in the pledge recently added by Eisenhower. Or when I raised my hand and protested my third grade teacher reading the 23rd Psalm, freely admitting she was going against the Supreme Court ruling.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. When I protested my son’s sixth-grade graduation being full of quasi-religious songs (from cartoons such as Prince of Egypt, we’re not talking Bible here) despite back-up from a lawyer/PTA mother, I was banned from an elementary school (at the age of 48). Worse, my children and I were attacked and reviled throughout the neighborhood by Christians and Jews alike. (Hindis and others agreed with me, but were afraid to speak up.) So much for America, land of freedom, let’s import it to the world.

Moreover, as she explains, even the “Jews refuse to accept my turning my back on the faith of my forefathers.”

More thoughts by Ms. Birnbaum can be found here (religious cartoons), here (Jews for Jesus theme park) and here (memorials).

Comments

23 Responses to “F__ing Atheists”

  1. hermesten
    April 6th, 2006 @ 4:02 pm

    This is a woman who knows her theists. I’m frequently amused by the atheists here who talk about how nice most Christians are. Of course they are, as long as you allow them to believe that you’re not an atheist, and as long as you just nod your head and pretend to be interested when they talk about Jesus. See how long that lasts if you challenge any of their fairy tales. Sure, they’ve got nothing against atheists –as long as we know our place– but they wouldn’t want their daughter to marry one. I’m sure most Nazis were nice too, as long as you weren’t a Jew or a Commie. I bet some of them even loved their dogs.

  2. Buddhamonkeydevil
    April 6th, 2006 @ 4:45 pm

    Not only is it okay to make fun of or marginalize atheists, it is also perfectly fine to make fun of poor white folks, aka, rednecks, white trash. The double standards these days are truly laughable….

  3. Lily
    April 6th, 2006 @ 5:53 pm

    Ms. Birnbaum is quite an engaging writer. Of the three articles you linked to, RA, the one that really fascinated me was the one about the Holy Land theme park in Orlando. In a weird way it reminded me of a Flannery O’Connor story–a dry narrative voice describing the grotesqueries (I doubt I spelled that correctly), as though they were ordinary. I have never understood the allure of theme parks. Clearly, a whole species of people I need to study up on is out there…

    The article in which she sings the litany of atheist woes highlighted something I don’t think y’all take seriously enough. Just this a.m. before leaving for work, I went out into my garden to pull a few weeds. Well, the 20 dianthus (dianthi?) I put in last fall have quadrupled in size and blossomed splendidly but, this being the south, weeds never-the-less managed to grow through and around the plants. I pulled a few but I am actually going to have to dig up the flowers, tease apart the weeds from the roots of the flowers and replant. I hope the flowers survive.

    This is what disentangling any mention of God (no matter how trivial) from our nation’s life would be like. If you could do it, you would run a serious, if not absolute, risk of destroying the “garden”. Her article did a fantastic job of showing how deeply intertwined religion and our civic and social lives are at every point. While I am sorry that atheists feel so beleaguered, have experienced rudeness and had their feelings hurt by untactful theists, still you all aren’t in any real danger.

    We just recently left behind a century in which people who didn’t fit in with the mainstream were slaughtered all over Europe and elsewhere and, in one particular horror in recent memory were turned into lampshades and soap.

    In the light of that I can’t help but feel that American atheists ought to just get over feeling any emotion stronger than annoyance at tactless remarks, learn a few zippy come backs but otherwise suck it up. There has always been a price to be paid for being outside the mainstream. Somehow, this modern generation of “outsiders” looks pretty sad compared to the martyrs who have gone before.

  4. Eva, Mod.
    April 6th, 2006 @ 9:33 pm

    but you threw a veritable hissy fit over our atheist tasteless remarks over at the forums, lily…you did not “suck it up”, nor feel that your very own zippy comebacks were enough to combat our atheist annoyance…

    are you hurting, lily?

  5. Lily
    April 6th, 2006 @ 10:06 pm

    What are you talking about, Eva? My problems with the 8th grade vulgarities that pass for humor in the forums are grounded in my sense of aesthetics. It is not possible for you to offend me. I’ve heard it all, seen it all, smelled it all before. But that was in Junior High School.

    When those who claim to be adults, educated ones at that, express themselves like 2 bit gangbangers, I really have to wonder whether atheism is a developmental problem that leaves its adherents unable to cope with the adult world. What a bunch of whining goes on in those forums of yours! That is, when you aren’t strutting, puffing out your chests and congratulating yourselves on your superiority to the rest of mankind.

    On the other hand, maybe you are the low rent fundies of the atheist world and the mature atheists stay out here… Hmmm. I will have to test that hypothesis.

    And now, let the hijacking of this thread begin!

  6. Dada Saves
    April 7th, 2006 @ 7:50 am

    Hey Lily, why doncha just leave the damn garden alone? If you insist on a sterile monoculture, you’ll not only wreck whatever semblance of an ecosystem you had there in the first place, you’ll be opening the door for pests and disease. Good analogy though! Works with gardens or religions.

    The hi-jacking took place back at post #3.

  7. Lily
    April 7th, 2006 @ 8:33 am

    Does the analogy also work for society?

    How does responding to the posted message constitute hijacking?

  8. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 8:50 am

    “This is what disentangling any mention of God (no matter how trivial) from our nation’s life would be like.”

    Another strawman. From Lily of all people. What a surprise. The woman who doesn’t care what we think, but rarely manages a post that doesn’t tell us how highly cultured and aesthetically superior she considers herself.

    “We just recently left behind a century in which people who didn’t fit in with the mainstream were slaughtered all over Europe and elsewhere and, in one particular horror in recent memory were turned into lampshades and soap.”

    Yeah, and since it was in Europe, the majority of the people doing the killing were Christians. There sure weren’t enough atheists around to fight the allies and run concentration camps. And the ranks of Hitler’s minions weren’t filled with Muslims or Hindus. Nope, they were 99% Christian, with their reverence for God proclaimed on their belt buckles.

  9. Viole
    April 7th, 2006 @ 9:57 am

    From Lily of all people. What a surprise. The woman who doesn’t care what we think, but rarely manages a post that doesn’t tell us how highly cultured and aesthetically superior she considers herself.

    You should have seen her in the forums.

    I should know better than this, but…

    […]a dry narrative voice describing the grotesqueries (I doubt I spelled that correctly), as though they were ordinary. I have never understood the allure of theme parks. Clearly, a whole species of people I need to study up on is out there…

    I don’t know what hole you’re living in, but they are ordinary. Their worldview has quite plainly begun to crack recently, though, as Our Leader’s administration slowly reveals itself not to be headed by Jesus reborn.

    The article in which she sings the litany of atheist woes highlighted something I don’t think y’all take seriously enough. Just this a.m. before leaving for work, I went out into my garden to pull a few weeds. Well, the 20 dianthus (dianthi?) I put in last fall have quadrupled in size and blossomed splendidly but, this being the south, weeds never-the-less managed to grow through and around the plants. I pulled a few but I am actually going to have to dig up the flowers, tease apart the weeds from the roots of the flowers and replant. I hope the flowers survive.

    This is what disentangling any mention of God (no matter how trivial) from our nation’s life would be like. If you could do it, you would run a serious, if not absolute, risk of destroying the “garden”.

    Here’s where your analogy falls apart, Lily; getting rid of theism wouldn’t be pulling up the weeds, it’d be reclassifying them. Yes, the flowers might die, but have you ever walked a meadow at high summer? There is no shortage of flowers, from early spring to early fall.

    They just aren’t the ones you’d grow in your garden.

    While I am sorry that atheists feel so beleaguered, have experienced rudeness and had their feelings hurt by untactful theists, still you all aren’t in any real danger.

    What Eva said. Rudeness without reason is childish by definition. And what’s that they say? “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me”? I though we disposed of that one in third grade.

    Groupthink does a terrific job of making you humans dangerous. You’ll kill someone for being different, with enough mob support. You’re a raving hypocrite, Lily.

    We just recently left behind a century in which people who didn’t fit in with the mainstream were slaughtered all over Europe and elsewhere and, in one particular horror in recent memory were turned into lampshades and soap.

    There are far worse things than having a lampshade made out of your corpse. For example, being tortured, starved or murdered. Yes, I know what ‘horror’ you’re talking about. I merely find it interesting what particular incident you choose to emphasize.

    In the light of that I can’t help but feel that American atheists ought to just get over feeling any emotion stronger than annoyance at tactless remarks, learn a few zippy come backs but otherwise suck it up. There has always been a price to be paid for being outside the mainstream. Somehow, this modern generation of “outsiders” looks pretty sad compared to the martyrs who have gone before.

    Don’t worry, we feel the same way about you.

    Actually, you’re pretty pathetic. For a historian, you have no concept of changing times. Since the founding of this country, most of our revolutions have been taken up in the courtroom. The alternative–and you don’t seem to realize this–is with guns. So I’d have to say that, in most cases, the courtroom is the better choice.

    Don’t let your arrogance force us to get the guns.

  10. Alfredo
    April 7th, 2006 @ 10:01 am

    It’s amazing how much of Lily’s worldview comes through in her commentary.

    For instance, in comparing the vulgarities we like to toss around here from time to time to the speak of “gangbangers”, she reveals both her ignorance of the culture she’s referring to, but her own latent racism.

    Clearly, she thinks all kinds of minorities should just “get over it”, including the Arabs that her beloved government sees fit to torture all over the world.

  11. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 10:10 am

    “Don’t let your arrogance force us to get the guns.”

    Here’s hoping every atheist posting here already has some guns on hand. You never know when you’re going to need them. Given an administration whose primarily tool of governance is fear, and that is so actively in pursuit of chaos, it might be sooner than you think. The Bible Beaters and neo-fascists are already listing their scapegoats.

  12. simbol
    April 7th, 2006 @ 10:25 am

    There was, too, a lot of christians and atheists to fight the nazi christians; and to run the gulags: Poles, french, british, americans and ruskies. Four centuries ago there was enough christians for killing each other in the religious wars. More recently muslim eslaughtering muslims in the Irak-Iran border, or comunists clashing in the china-urss border.

    This leads me to the conclusion that maybe the problem is not only or mainly religions but the eternal quest of man for false paradises or mad utopias like: a God’s Kingdom, ethnic superiority, a worker’s paradise, the grandest and safest empire….or a perfect garden.

    Wouldn’t it be our quest for a free world, where the individual’s rights be respected, another Utopia?

  13. kate
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:07 am

    hermesten said: “Here’s hoping every atheist posting here already has some guns on hand.”

    And ammo. Plenty of ammo. Never, ever forget the ammo.

  14. Viole
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:09 am

    Wouldn’t it be our quest for a free world, where the individual’s rights be respected, another Utopia?

    Maybe. It might be that the current miserable excuse for a free world is the best we will ever have. I don’t hold to that. Humanity is a pretty poor excuse for an intelligent species, overall, but if this is the best we can do we’re downright pathetic. Seriously.

  15. Viole
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:18 am

    Here’s hoping every atheist posting here already has some guns on hand. You never know when you’re going to need them. Given an administration whose primarily tool of governance is fear, and that is so actively in pursuit of chaos, it might be sooner than you think. The Bible Beaters and neo-fascists are already listing their scapegoats.

    For all my rhetoric, I think I’d prefer to let them shoot me. Nothing is worse than following Christopher Hitchens down the hallowed path of the Drink Soaked Troskyist Popinjays for War.

    Not that I’m a Troskyist.

  16. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:19 am

    Simbol, as I’ve said before, it isn’t that religion in general, or Christianity in particular, causes evil, but that it doesn’t make any difference one way or the other.

  17. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:24 am

    “Nothing is worse than following Christopher Hitchens down the hallowed path of the Drink Soaked Troskyist Popinjays for War.

    Hitchens, ugh. And I used to like the guy. I’m against killing people. I consider violence to be a last resort. But we do have a right to self-defense. I’m not going to go out and shoot anybody, ever. However, if someone attacks me and tries to shoot me, I am going to shoot back.

  18. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:27 am

    “And ammo. Plenty of ammo. Never, ever forget the ammo.”

    Of course. The Beaters think we’re all a bunch of pansy liberal pacifists. If they ever decide to hunt themselves some of them liberal commie pinko atheists, they just might get a big surprise.

  19. Lily
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:33 am

    Dear heaven, what fools these mortals be!

  20. Viole
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:49 am

    […]pansy liberal pacifists.

    Well… that’s exactly what I am. In tested theory, even. A little beyond a hypothesis, but more experimentation necessary for the status of law.

    I personally would be happy to avoid further experiments, too.

  21. Eva, Mod.
    April 7th, 2006 @ 11:54 am

    yourself included, dearest Lily….

  22. Lily
    April 7th, 2006 @ 12:29 pm

    Myself included, dearest, Eva.

  23. hermesten
    April 7th, 2006 @ 1:56 pm

    Don’t get me wrong Viole, my strategy is also avoidance. I plan, and expect, to avoid any serious threats, no matter what the future brings. I also intend to be prepared in case I can’t.

  • Basic Assumptions

    First, there is a God.

    Continue Reading...

  • Search

  • Quote of the Day

    • Fifty Random Links

      See them all on the links page.

      • No Blogroll Links