The Raving Theist

Dedicated to Jesus Christ, Now and Forever

Senselessness of Church Arson Rampage Delights Alabama Governor

March 9, 2006 | 96 Comments

Birmingham, Alabama, March 9, 2006
Special to The Raving Atheist

Dismissing the torching of nine churches as a “joke,” Alabama Governor Bob Riley expressed relief that the fiery spree was untainted by theological differences or any other identifiable human motive.

“We don’t think that there is any type of conspiracy against organized religion or against the Baptists or against religious beliefs in particular,” Riley said. “I think that, today, Alabama and all of the faith-based community in this state can rest a little easier.”

The Governor stated that religious people are much safer when cataclysmic violence against their houses of worship strikes arbitrarily out of nowhere. “Nothing is more unbearable than the knowledge that someone disagrees with your dogma,” Riley added. “Christians should take great comfort in the fact that college-educated young men are now setting their churches ablaze by the score in a random, unreasoning fashion.”

Comments

96 Responses to “Senselessness of Church Arson Rampage Delights Alabama Governor”

  1. Thorngod
    March 9th, 2006 @ 11:57 am

    His “dogma” comment was hilarious! But I was happy to learn that the hellfires were the acts of pranksters rather than one of our angry atheists! The Lord God moves in mysterious ways!

  2. franky
    March 9th, 2006 @ 12:20 pm

    lol funny TRA

  3. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 12:22 pm

    “Nothing is more unbearable than the knowledge that someone disagrees with your dogma,”

    As is amply demonstrated by all the Bible Beaters who seek us atheists out and come here to set us straight.

  4. Graham
    March 9th, 2006 @ 1:10 pm

    I’m pretty sure the “dogma” passage is just RA’s satirical wit, guys.

  5. The No God Boy
    March 9th, 2006 @ 1:25 pm

    The only possible conclusion is that the destruction of the churches was the will of god. I knew this the moment I saw it.

    The big test will now come in whether or not the congregations will display the mandated cheek-turning forgiveness.

    I’m going with no.

    Bible rules and religious philosophy are all well and good, just as long as their impact is borne by someone else. I have never known a religious person who, when the impact came home to roost, wanted anything other than their pound of flesh.

    I say turn these boys loose and let god punish them as he will.

  6. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 2:53 pm

    thorngod, obviously these “pranksters” are also atheists since nobody who has accepted the love of Jesus Christ would engage in such awful activities.

    no god boy, the will of god is beyond our understanding, so it is foolish to even try and arrogant to say you know the mind of god.

  7. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:01 pm

    “I’m pretty sure the “dogma” passage is just RA’s satirical wit, guys.”

    So? It doesn’t make it one less bit true.

  8. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:11 pm

    “it is foolish to even try and arrogant to say you know the mind of god.”

    Last time God talked to me, I don’t recall you being there to hear it, so WTF do you know about it? God often tells me what’s on his mind, and though he doesn’t tell me everything, I obviously do know his mind where he, in his infinite wisdom, has seen fit for me to know it. In fact, we may not know what God thinks about unified field theory (he hates talking about this this subject and seems to be fixated on the topic of homosexuality and co-ck size) but we certainly can know his mind, with regard to everything that really matters, if we all just read his book, where he tells us in his own words everything we need to know –the Bible.

  9. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:29 pm

    homosten, clearly you are not able to hear the word of god thrugh your hate so why do you lie about it? Are all atheists just liars?

  10. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:38 pm

    I knew you were going to say that. God told me. We had a good laugh about you. He was ROTFL after I asked him if I should buy you a Nomex suit.

  11. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:44 pm

    thorngod, obviously these “pranksters” are also atheists since nobody who has accepted the love of Jesus Christ would engage in such awful activities.

    no god boy, the will of god is beyond our understanding, so it is foolish to even try and arrogant to say you know the mind of god.

    really – they have to be atheists. they couldn’t possibly be muslims or seventh day adventists or mormons?
    I mean if you look at history, its the religious people doing the burning and killing – not the atheists.

  12. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:46 pm

    it seems that the atheist MO is to use abuse instead of reason. It’s not surprising that the faithful regularly win in debates. The top debating team in the country is from Jerry Fallwells university, and the beat harvard and all the others. Atheism leads to boxed thinking and a lack of imagination, and that’s why the faithful always win. Has there been an atheist president in the last 100 years? No. And there won’t be for another 100 years, at least, because God gives strength and atheists are therefore weak compared to believers. I feel sorry for you hermesten.

  13. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:47 pm

    and by the way i believe that the catholic priests have accepted the love of Jesus Christ and it didn’t stop them from raping thousands of boys.
    So much for your superiour morality.

  14. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:48 pm

    qedpro, have muslims accepted the love of jesus christ? Why don’t you read what you write before you make a fool of yourself.

  15. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:50 pm

    Chris, you clearly believe that God talks to some people, since you appear to believe the Bible to be true. So how do you know that God doesn’t talk to hermesten, or to me, for that matter? Can you tell by the content? The fact that God-as-Jesus has a somewhat different message than God-as-Yahweh doesn’t seem to faze you. Prove that God doesn’t talk to any of us.

  16. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:53 pm

    Has there been an atheist president in the last 100 years? No. And there won’t be for another 100 years, at least

    thankyou at least for admitting that after 100 years people will finally see the light and atheism will take over.
    We can wait until our “special” brothers and sisters grow up and finally come into the 22nd century.
    until then we’ll continue to drag you up the evolutionary ladder, even if we have to do it while your kicking and screaming.

  17. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:54 pm

    oz, I don’t have to prove anyting to you. I don’t think that god has spoken to you or hermesten because you act in a way that imakes it seem like you don’t have the love of
    jesus in your heart. Maybe you do and you have other reasons for coming off as assholes, I don’t really know or care.

  18. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:56 pm

    so what about seventh day adventists, catholic priests and mormons?

  19. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:57 pm

    qedpro, did you read my advice to you? Read what you write and you might look like less of a fool. I said 100 years at least. Most likely there will NEVER be atheist president beccause, like I said, strengh comes from faith and that is why believers are the ones who always succeed in everything.

  20. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 3:59 pm

    Maybe you do and you have other reasons for coming off as assholes, I don’t really know or care.

    Oh but you do care. you care so much you can’t deal with the fact that people don’t believe the same thing that you do.
    Its unnerving and it attacks you to the very core.

  21. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:00 pm

    I’ll repeat the question

    so what about seventh day adventists, catholic priests and mormons?

  22. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:00 pm

    you cannot judge a billion people based on the actions of a few hundred priests. That is no different than being a racist. Mormons are misguided.

  23. Rob
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:02 pm

    “it seems that the atheist MO is to use abuse instead of reason. ”
    So is that why you chose to ignore reason in post 87 in the god squad thread and just chose to reiterate a meme? Is that why you chose to call Hermensten “homosten”? Are you secretly an atheist?

    “The top debating team in the country is from Jerry Fallwells university, and the beat harvard and all the others.”

    Yes, because what Xian apologetics do is find good reasons to believe incorrect things. Just because you can successfully debate a topic doesn’t mean you’re right.

    ” Atheism leads to boxed thinking and a lack of imagination, and that’s why the faithful always win.”

    Lack of imagination? I think the percentage of science fiction, horror, fantasy and comic book writers that are atheist or agnostic probably is higher than that of the general population. I’d like to think I gravitated towards atheism because of my imagination, not in spite of it.

    “Has there been an atheist president in the last 100 years? No. And there won’t be for another 100 years, at least, because God gives strength and atheists are therefore weak compared to believers.”

    No, there hasn’t been an atheist president in the last 100 years for the same reason there hasn’t been a female president in the last 100 years. Because the vast Xian majority is prejudiced against us.

  24. Thorngod
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:04 pm

    Where the hell are Lily and SBW? I think the Christ Impersonator’s fund of “reason” and repartee have been all too soon exhausted. Old granny is about to fall asleep.

  25. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:04 pm

    “Lack of imagination? I think the percentage of science fiction, horror, fantasy and comic book writers that are atheist or agnostic probably is higher than that of the general population. I’d like to think I gravitated towards atheism because of my imagination, not in spite of it.”

    this is some interesting fiction right here. Can you back this up or are you just making stuff up? I’m guessing the lsecond one.

  26. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:05 pm

    you cannot judge a billion people based on the actions of a few hundred priests. That is no different than being a racist. Mormons are misguided.

    and yet you choose to judge all of us.

    I’ve got news for you christ reborn – you’re a racist – to the core.

  27. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:08 pm

    qedpro, than you for helping to prove my point that faith gives strength and atheists are weaker for lack of faith. There are many blacks and asians in our church and we welcome them all. So you see I am in no way a racist. All men are created by God and therefore all men should be loved. Calling me a racist is like when a gay calls someone else a homosexual to hide his own sin.

  28. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:12 pm

    The fact that you think of people as blacks and asians and homosexuals proves you are a racist. You see i think of them as people.

  29. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:21 pm

    why don’t you read what you are writing? You keep acting like you are making a point when I have already dealt with it. It’s making you look foolish. I told you all men (and women) are created by God and that is why I love all people, of any race. I am not racist at all. I have a lot of black friends. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

  30. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:22 pm

    qedpro, do you think homosexuals are a race? Thanks for proving that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  31. Rob
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:22 pm

    “Lack of imagination? I think the percentage of science fiction, horror, fantasy and comic book writers that are atheist or agnostic probably is higher than that of the general population. I’d like to think I gravitated towards atheism because of my imagination, not in spite of it.”
    this is some interesting fiction right here. Can you back this up or are you just making stuff up? I’m guessing the lsecond one.

    http://www.celebatheists.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page

    I see Douglas Adams, Isaac Asimov, Iain M. Banks, Clive Barker to start with… I can go on but you can see for yourself. Those fields of fiction is just chock full of atheists and agnostics. I know that a list of atheist science fiction writers is not a thorough statistical study, but thats why I typed “I think” rather than “I know”. However, I can look at this list and find it amazing that we can be accused of a lack of imagination. Try to tell me that Douglas Adams has a lack of imagination!

  32. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:26 pm

    rob you named 4 guys. That is hardly proof! If you’re going to make stuff up you should try a bit harder! That’s quite lame.

  33. jahrta
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:26 pm

    Chrissy,

    Abraham Lincoln was an atheist in thought and practice, if not in title.

    And when qedpro called you a racist he wasn’t so much referring to your distrust of members of any particul race as much as those who choose not to believe in your 2000 year old fairy tale, rife with homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, racist and otherwise blindly idiotic lies and slander.

    Never forget that Pi = 3 Chris, and that the world is 6000 years old, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.

    The bible says so, so it must be true :P

  34. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:27 pm

    Chris, you don’t know a damn thing about me or how I act. In fact, since I don’t write often, I don’t see how you could possibly know if I’m an atheist or not. If you think strength comes from faith, you also don’t know anything about strength, either.

    As for proving things to me, you made the assertion that hermesten’s claims regarding talking to God were false. Since you obviously believe others’ similar claims, the onus is on you to tell us your method of discrimination.

  35. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:28 pm

    Hey Rob i totally agree.
    Carl Sagan’s wife wrote a piece sometime after he died. In it she said something to the affect
    When people write and think of a future they rarely include our current conceptions of God.
    Its always about something much more enlightened.

  36. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:29 pm

    Jahrta” yawn yawn. The same old atheist lines yet again. The OT is not literally true. We were sent the son of God and his message is contained in the NT. Is that so hard for you to understand? Thank you for proving yet again thet faith gives strength and no faith leads to weakness.

  37. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:32 pm

    Oz, if you’re trying to show that you don’t come off as an asshole you’re not doing a very good job with that response! I am vindicated, again.

  38. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:34 pm

    Heinlein might not have been an atheist, but nearly all of his sympathetic characters were. Either that or they fought against the organized religion of the day.

  39. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:35 pm

    Chris, it turns out that just saying “I win” doesn’t make it so. Once again, you fail to impress.

  40. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:37 pm

    naming a couple of writers who are atheists proves nothing. There have been hundreds of thousands over the years, and it is likely that most of them were believers. Your own argument is helping to prove my point.

  41. rob
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:41 pm

    Chris Treborn, did you really want me to recite all the atheist writers listed on that famous atheist page? Yes, I know 4 names isn’t proof, but I didn’t expect you to assume idiotically that those were the only names I could cite.
    I’d think you didn’t know how to click on a link.

    For that matter, I know that list isn’t necessarily complete. For example, I know Alan Moore has some disparaging words to say about religion, and he isn’t listed there. Generally, this is only the writers who were public about their atheism. The number of avowed atheists could be much larger, since atheism unlike Christianity is not something people advertise.

  42. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:42 pm

    Chris, your point was that atheists lack imagination. In case you’re unfamiliar with logic, the statement “All X are Y” can be proven false simply by demonstrating that one X is not Y. So, contrary to your assertion, naming “a couple” (or five) writers who were atheists is all the proof that is necessary. In fact, it’s overkill.

  43. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:48 pm

    Rob, if you want to make any kind of meaningful statement you would need to show reliable data comparing the number of atheist writers throughout all of history to those who were not atheists. I expect you are reluctand to do this because you know that it would probably show that the most imagination of all humanity has been associated with those who believe in god. your link is far from exhaustive. As I said already, your argument actually helps to prove my point!

    Oz, did I say ALL atheists lack imagination? No, therefore your statement is irrelevant. Try to keep up, if you can.

  44. musashi
    March 9th, 2006 @ 4:54 pm

    “strengh comes from faith and that is why believers are the ones who always succeed in everything.”

    Now that’s a gross overgeneralization if I have ever seen one. How do you explain the fact that more than 75% of the prison population in the U.S. Is religious (some form of christianity or otherwise). You have nothing to back that up with, and don’t try to use anecdotal evidence either because you are just as capable of making things up just to support your agenda as the rest of your ilk. Just because you have some sort of faith in something does not automatically guarantee success.

  45. jahrta
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:07 pm

    “Jahrta” yawn yawn. The same old atheist lines yet again. The OT is not literally true. We were sent the son of God and his message is contained in the NT. Is that so hard for you to understand? Thank you for proving yet again thet faith gives strength and no faith leads to weakness.”

    Wow…so basically your response to what I said is “it’s been said before, so i don’t have to address it” mixed with “some other liars invented a new bible after the first one – bible 2.0 – and they’re both good, but the one is good-er! :P~~~”

    It’s becoming increasingly clear to me with each response why you believe that you’re an invincible debater. Maybe when you start..oh, I dunno…ADDRESSING the actual questions, you’ll begin to realize how stilted your thought processes have become through religious indoctrination.

    And if you don’t believe that the bible (ot or nt) is the literal word of god, why do you believe that homosexuality is an egregious sin in the eyes of god?

    I swear, if your parents of preacher had told you that you were immortal, and would end up in paradise in the clouds amongst angels when you died, you’d probably believe them. Some people will believe anything at face value.

    And yet you have the sheer balls to claim that atheists are weak-minded or lack imagination…pathetic

  46. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:07 pm

    I know it can be hard to tell the difference between even a poor troll and a real Godidiot, but after reviewing his numerous posts, and considering his chosen nickname, I tend to think that Christ Reborn is a troll. Of course, he could really be as stupid as he appears to be, but that would just make him a rather typical American Christian.

  47. musashi
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:09 pm

    “Oz, did I say ALL atheists lack imagination? No, therefore your statement is irrelevant. Try to keep up, if you can.”

    You may as well have said:

    “What? 2+2=4? nope, im not gonna believe that because in my math book 2+2=5, try to keep up if you can..”

    Chris, listen closely here; you are a dumbass in practice and in prose.
    You are just slinging the spoon-fed ignorance of your childhood all about and you are starting to dirty up the place. We had people like you in Iraq. People just like you, who always tried to ‘save’ everyone and force prayer at inopportune times under the guise of “it gives us strength”. Oddly enough, your kind was the first to duck and cover as soon as the first bullet flew. You have no idea how much strength and courage it takes to be an Atheist… exponentially more than it does to just stick with the mainstream. You know nothing of strength.

  48. Thorngod
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:16 pm

    This argument is silly. A thousand years ago I could find almost no one who believed the Earth was spherical. I was outnumbered by at least 100,000 to one. But either I was right or the flat earth gradually contorted itself into a ball. AT least 95 percent of our kind still believe in a lot of mumbo-jumbo. So much for the bruited brainpower of the human race!

  49. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:16 pm

    “And yet you have the sheer balls to claim that atheists are weak-minded or lack imagination..”

    The only balls he has are in his mouth. As for the OT/NT debate, I suggest you go to the Larry Kilgore website (Republican for Texas governor at http://www.larrykilgore.com) and see what this good Christian has to say about the subject. According to Mr. Kilgore, who got about 8% of the vote in the Republican primary, aduterers, women who get abortions, and homosexuals, should all be executed. You see, the NT only applies to God. God made the law, so he can choose to ingore it, but man must obey the original law of the OT.

  50. Chris Treborn
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:18 pm

    hermesten, I have noticed that you like to label people as trolls, especially when they disagree with you. Why is that do you think? I bet you think everyone who drives fasterthan you is a moron and everybody who drives slower is an idiot.

    musashi, you are no different from the disgusting choobus. ad hominim attacks do little to show atheists as thoughtful and reasonable people.

    Jahrta, you are a sad individual but I am willing to help you understand the things I am saying if you are willing to listen.

  51. hermesten
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:29 pm

    So, why respond like Donald Rumsfeld, just tell us then, are you a troll, or not? I’m perfectly willing to accept your word that you’re not a troll, just an idiot.

  52. qedpro
    March 9th, 2006 @ 5:53 pm

    Maybe we could introduce Christreborn to Lucy Muff.
    then we would have two people talking on the same intellectual level.

  53. Oz
    March 9th, 2006 @ 6:49 pm

    In post #12 you claim that atheism leads to a lack of imagination. Since all atheists embrace atheism, it should follow that all atheists would lack imagination. QED, bitch.

    The fact that more writers are theists than atheists throughout history is meaningless, since the overwhelming majority of people throughout history have been theists.

    Also, my name, like many others here, is capitalized. Since you have otherwise good grammar, I can only take this to be intentionally insulting. In fact, you’ve been insulting in the face of reasonable requests and disagreement. So who’s the asshole now, asshole?

  54. Choobus
    March 9th, 2006 @ 9:50 pm

    ChristWanker, you have uttered my name on two occasions fuckface, and now you must pay the price. It is abundantly clear that you are of the “god hates fags” style of Christianity, which ironically makes you a total cockmuncher. If you don’t stop talking shit I’m going to pray to Jesus for you to get caught in a public toilet rimming George micheal and taking a faceful of spooge from a 500 lb homo. You cunt.

  55. Eva, Mod.
    March 9th, 2006 @ 10:52 pm

    aw gawd……i wish this were the forums and i could ban someone here……………someone that stinks like troll, thru and thru….or like a godidiot…..

    i’m joking. i hate banning people.

  56. Pascal's Wager
    March 9th, 2006 @ 11:10 pm

    I have 2 comments, first, Rob states “Just because you can successfully debate a topic doesn’t mean you’re right.” Can that not be said regarding faith. Faith is built upon “complete confidence in a person or plan”- (http://wordnet.princeton.edu
    /perl/webwn) Faith is not built upon proving something through the 6 steps of the scientific method, if so, it would not be faith. I have faith there are atoms, and have yet to physically see one. Taking it a step further, I have faith that qwarks make up the protons and neutrons within the nucleus of the atom and that they actually exist, and I have yet to see them, as has anybody else, BUT, I can see the evidence of their existence. Similar to God, I may have never physically seen Him, but I see evidence of His existence. Not only do I see it, but I feel it. That comment should get some verbal knocks. But if I said I loved my children, most of you wouldn’t knock that feeling, even though none of you see “love.” Secondly, jahrta said “Abraham Lincoln was an atheist in thought and practice, if not in title.” Were you sleeping through all of your history classes? Following are a few quotes in evidence contrary to that statement. There are a multitude of others, but for the sake of space, I will only list three:
    “In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, “Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible” (September 7, 1864), p. 542.

    “We hoped for a happy termination of this terrible war long before this; but God knows best, and has ruled otherwise. We shall yet acknowledge His wisdom and our own error therein.”
    Abraham Lincoln Source:September 4, 1864 – Letter to Eliza Gurney

    “Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, “Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others” (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

  57. Pascal's Wager
    March 9th, 2006 @ 11:10 pm

    I have 2 comments, first, Rob states “Just because you can successfully debate a topic doesn’t mean you’re right.” Can that not be said regarding faith. Faith is built upon “complete confidence in a person or plan”- (http://wordnet.princeton.edu
    /perl/webwn) Faith is not built upon proving something through the 6 steps of the scientific method, if so, it would not be faith. I have faith there are atoms, and have yet to physically see one. Taking it a step further, I have faith that qwarks make up the protons and neutrons within the nucleus of the atom and that they actually exist, and I have yet to see them, as has anybody else, BUT, I can see the evidence of their existence. Similar to God, I may have never physically seen Him, but I see evidence of His existence. Not only do I see it, but I feel it. That comment should get some verbal knocks. But if I said I loved my children, most of you wouldn’t knock that feeling, even though none of you see “love.” Secondly, jahrta said “Abraham Lincoln was an atheist in thought and practice, if not in title.” Were you sleeping through all of your history classes? Following are a few quotes in evidence contrary to that statement. There are a multitude of others, but for the sake of space, I will only list three:
    “In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, “Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible” (September 7, 1864), p. 542.

    “We hoped for a happy termination of this terrible war long before this; but God knows best, and has ruled otherwise. We shall yet acknowledge His wisdom and our own error therein.”
    Abraham Lincoln Source:September 4, 1864 – Letter to Eliza Gurney

    “Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, “Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others” (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

  58. Pascal's Wager
    March 9th, 2006 @ 11:10 pm

    I have 2 comments, first, Rob states “Just because you can successfully debate a topic doesn’t mean you’re right.” Can that not be said regarding faith. Faith is built upon “complete confidence in a person or plan”- (http://wordnet.princeton.edu
    /perl/webwn) Faith is not built upon proving something through the 6 steps of the scientific method, if so, it would not be faith. I have faith there are atoms, and have yet to physically see one. Taking it a step further, I have faith that qwarks make up the protons and neutrons within the nucleus of the atom and that they actually exist, and I have yet to see them, as has anybody else, BUT, I can see the evidence of their existence. Similar to God, I may have never physically seen Him, but I see evidence of His existence. Not only do I see it, but I feel it. That comment should get some verbal knocks. But if I said I loved my children, most of you wouldn’t knock that feeling, even though none of you see “love.” Secondly, jahrta said “Abraham Lincoln was an atheist in thought and practice, if not in title.” Were you sleeping through all of your history classes? Following are a few quotes in evidence contrary to that statement. There are a multitude of others, but for the sake of space, I will only list three:
    “In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, “Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible” (September 7, 1864), p. 542.

    “We hoped for a happy termination of this terrible war long before this; but God knows best, and has ruled otherwise. We shall yet acknowledge His wisdom and our own error therein.”
    Abraham Lincoln Source:September 4, 1864 – Letter to Eliza Gurney

    “Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.” The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, “Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others” (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

  59. Rob
    March 10th, 2006 @ 12:28 am

    “Similar to God, I may have never physically seen Him, but I see evidence of His existence. Not only do I see it, but I feel it. That comment should get some verbal knocks.”

    Heres the problem with your logic. Unlike with the atom, which appears to have enough evidence to exclude other alternatives that might make matter seem to behave otherwise, your so-called evidence of god’s existence has viable alternatives. If you are citing the universe as evidence of god’s existence then you must demonstrate that the universe couldn’t have always existed in some form. (Keep in mind that a singularity isn’t the same as nothing.) If you insist that you are feeling the presence of god, you must demonstrate that it isn’t an illusion of your mind. The euphoria that one feels when one thinks he’s being touched by god has been duplicated artificially. So like it or not, you cannot demonstrate the evidence of a god this way, let alone the more specific Christian version of god because you would have to willingly ignore the alternatives.

  60. The No God Boy
    March 10th, 2006 @ 1:45 am

    Faith is built on complete confidence…..

    Really?

    So god exists because you are confident he does huh?

    Well, I am confident that he does not. I thus have faith that there is no god.

    Clearly one of us is wrong. Since science clearly supports my point of view, I say you are headed for a LOT of disappointment.

  61. Chris Treborn
    March 10th, 2006 @ 3:22 am

    oz, to answer your question, you are still the asshole, as your unwarranted attack shows clearly. If you stop and think for a moment you will realise that the statement “atheism leads to a lack of imagination” is quite distinct from the statement that “all atheists lack imagination”. Saying that gay sex can lead to aids does not then mean that all homosexuals have aids. Feel free to embarress yourself further, it’s quite amusing.

  62. JUST_ANOTHER_PRIMATE
    March 10th, 2006 @ 8:40 am

    Blah blah – atheists have no imagination …. How about this “Treeborn”:

    The percentage of atheists in prison is disproportionately lower than in the general population. Ergo – atheists, apparently, are more moral, less likely to commit crime than believers.

    Your claim that those church burners are atheists is a joke. It is also quite likely that they are believers (and christian) and they did a stupid thing – (like all the other believers and christians flooding the US prison system).

  63. jahrta
    March 10th, 2006 @ 10:58 am

    “Jahrta, you are a sad individual but I am willing to help you understand the things I am saying if you are willing to listen.”

    Chris – if you believe it makes me a “sad individual” that I can’t force myself to buy into your particular brand of bullshit, then go ahead and label me whatever you want. Your kind always does.

    Unfortunately for me, you don’t have to utter another word, as I am ALL too familiar with what you’re saying, how you think, what you believe, and who you really are.

    If I do appear sad, it is only because I am surrounded by people like you.

  64. JUST_ANOTHER_PRIMATE
    March 10th, 2006 @ 12:41 pm

    Deuteronomy 7:5

    But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
    ———————————————————————————
    Hmmmm …. seems to imply it’s OK to burn down churches if they don’t agree with your religion …

  65. Los Pepes
    March 10th, 2006 @ 2:04 pm

    Oz – nice use of propositional logic, that was sweet…

    I think the attempt to group atheists together in a statement such as, “…all atheists are _____…” is a lost cause. One needs to remember that being a member of a religious group means that you accept and practice their dogma; being an atheist means you reject all religious dogma.

    To expound on this: Being a christian is inclusive. Christians, depending on the type, do certain things that define them as christians. Atheists, being exclusive, are unified only in one thing–that all of these religious groups and beliefs are equally worthless, not at all useful, and a waste of our time. We are only frustrated when people that are supposed to practice peace, love, and tolerance insist that we entertain their nonsense. As was said before, very few atheists advertise the fact.

    Years ago, I was asked by a woman what religion I practiced. My response to her was simply, “I am an atheist”.
    Her response to me was then, “so you think it’s alright to murder people”.

    It was then that I realized what type of mentality I would be facing on this issue for the rest of my life. It really is quite pathetic.

    My response to her:
    “If the ten commandments is the only thing standing between you and murder, you are a psychopath and need to seek help”

    Whenever I’ve made the mistake of arguing the whole “god thing” with a theist, I’ve always walked away feeling like I just had a debate with a cult-programmed robot. The sheer number of christians (or muslims) really is the only thing that separates these larger religions from cults. Cults operate by banging nonsense into your head, over and over, until you begin to accept it (which is a survival mechanism of your brain).

    This is why you have to attend church so frequently; if you stop attending, the mojo will begin to wear off.

    Chris- you are defending a group that has told you that were born evil, and no matter what you do, the best you can hope to achieve is a lesser degree of evil. This group makes you feel guilty simply for existing. This group has told you that the entire point of your life, is your death. It is a death-based religion that focuses completely on the “end”, whatever that is.

    Life does not head towards an end, life heads away from a beginning. Anyone that has observed life has observed that.
    Religion is a racket. The people that earn their livings in religion have found a way to basically get over and have a decent life without having to learn anything of substance, or produce anything of value.

  66. The No God Boy
    March 10th, 2006 @ 2:12 pm

    It’s not just being born evil……

    The religious believe that they should spend every waking moment of every day begging the invisible man not to kill them.

    What a drag.

    No only, no matter how bad your life is, do you have to gush profuse thanks for it not being worse, but on top of that you have to beg forgiveness for sins you didn’t commit, apologize for being born the way you were, and plead not to be killed because of it.

    The can keep their invisible man.

    There is no god.

  67. Thorngod
    March 10th, 2006 @ 2:26 pm

    What! Out of senseless nothing to provoke
    A conscious something to resent the yoke
    Of unpermitted pleasure, under pain
    Of everlasting punishment if broke?
    -E. Fitzgerald, RAUAIYAT

  68. hermesten
    March 10th, 2006 @ 2:47 pm

    “Years ago, I was asked by a woman what religion I practiced. My response to her was simply, “I am an atheist”.
    Her response to me was then, “so you think it’s alright to murder people”.”

    Because most Christians are not this candid about what they think of atheists when the atheist is right in front of them, it isn’t possible to know just how many Christians actually feel this way. I have been covertly involved with a number of reglious groups, and I think the percentage of Christians who think like this is signficant, and may even represent the majority in the more zealous groups who self-identify as “fundamentalists” and “evalgelicals.” And while it’s hard to pin down the numbers, I do think we can establish some limits that can be verified by empirical data. For instance, a guy running for Texas governor in the republican primary, on a platform calling for the execution of women who have an abortion, adulterers, and homosexuals, got 8% of the vote. Given the fact that many people who support this agenda probably voted for the leading candidate because they didn’t think their preferred candidate would win the general election, his real support was probably even higher.

  69. simbol
    March 10th, 2006 @ 3:37 pm

    LXVIII.
    What! out of senseless Nothing to provoke
    A conscious Something to resent the yoke
    Of unpermitted Pleasure, under pain
    Of Everlasting Penalties, if broke!

    The Rubayyat

    Omar Khayyam

  70. simbol
    March 10th, 2006 @ 4:29 pm

    Thorngod

    What about these?

    Dreaming when Dawn’s Left Hand was in the Sky
    I heard a Voice within the Tavern cry,
    “Awake, my Little ones, and fill the Cup
    Before Life’s Liquor in its Cup be dry.”

    Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
    To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
    One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
    The Flower that once has blown forever dies

    Yesterday This Day’s Madness did prepare;
    To-morrow’s Silence, Triumph, or Despair:
    Drink! for you know not whence you came, nor why:
    Drink! for you know not why you go, nor where

    from the same Khayyam

  71. Thorngod
    March 10th, 2006 @ 4:37 pm

    Thanks for the correction, S. I was typing from memory, thought “punishment” for penalties, and somehow misfingered Rubaiyat. Fitzgerald didn’t call it a translation, however, but a “transliteration,” if I remember, so I didn’t bother to credit both.

  72. The No God Boy
    March 10th, 2006 @ 4:52 pm

    Two bits, four bits,
    Six bits, a peso,
    Once you realize religion is bullshit,
    Stand up and say so!!!!

    Harr deee harrr harrr!!!

  73. simbol
    March 10th, 2006 @ 6:26 pm

    Bad boy

    Your prose is better than your verses.

    Of course, there is no god. If there were one, he wouldn’t allow your poetry.

  74. The No God Boy
    March 10th, 2006 @ 6:28 pm

    My bad poetry just sort of EVOLVED that way.

    There is no god.

  75. Thorngod
    March 10th, 2006 @ 9:25 pm

    simbol, thanks for correction on LXV111, was typinig from memory, thought “punishment” instead of penalties, and I misfingered “Rubaiyat.” Fitzgerald characterized his rendering as “transliterated. I think the quatrains were more patterned after Khayyam’s than translations of. Some literary scholars who are also of the spirit persuasion have even charged that Fitzgerald perverted the Rubaiyat, claiming that the original were more spiritual! So I didn’t bother to credit both authors.

  76. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 12:53 am

    I came here to see what sort of things atheists (who claim to have nothing in common other than a non belief in god) find to talk about. I found out that many of them just like to abuse others. No big surprise there. You have some real “characters” here.

    Choobus: possibly one of the most foul people I have seen online. This disgusting specimen has never, to my knowlwdge, posted anything that disproves the assertion that he is a childish idiot, probably with a limited education and vocabulary. His obsession with anal sex implies that he may well be a homosexual.

    Hermesten: self righteous opportunist who never contributes to discussions but comes in at the last moment with some bogus argument, and then claims victory! Pathetic. He may also be a homosexual.

    Jahrta: what can I say about this person. Rude, no ability to debate and frankly intellectually lame. Reminds me of a character in a Steinbeck novel.

    oz: this poor fellow has a sub normal grasp of logic, but insists on laying out “arguments” that serve only to show how little he knows. It;s funny, but tragic nonetheless.

    In short, I am unimpressed by the combined might of your atheist intellect. All you have proved is that you are rude and have no respect for other people. I probably won’t bother coming back here because there don’t appear to be any people worth conversing with.

    You might as well elect the vile choobus as your spokesperson, because as a likely homosexual with a below average IQ, he is probably a very good representation of atheists in general.

    May God bless you all.

  77. Facehammer
    March 11th, 2006 @ 6:25 am

    Choobus: possibly one of the most foul people I have seen online. This disgusting specimen has never, to my knowlwdge, posted anything that disproves the assertion that he is a childish idiot, probably with a limited education and vocabulary. His obsession with anal sex implies that he may well be a homosexual.

    I’m sure you just cut him real deep, man. You homophobic scumbag. I hope he finds you and fu-cks you.
    “A likely homosexual with a below-average IQ” and a degree (or is it a PhD?) in physics. ‘Tard. Rather than whinging about how god is so impossible to understand, Choobus has gone out and learned everything that he can (and if he did that PhD, he will actually have advanced humanity’s understanding in some way). Frankly, he’s earned the right to make as many anal jokes at your expense as he likes.

    I probably won’t bother coming back here

    Yay! We won’t have to put up with your ceaseless winning at these debates any more.

  78. Los Pepes
    March 11th, 2006 @ 7:50 am

    Chris, Oz has a great grasp on logic.

    “I came here to see what sort of things atheists (who claim to have nothing in common other than a non belief in god) find to talk about. I found out that many of them just like to abuse others. No big surprise there. You have some real “characters” here.”

    What you found out was exactly as I stated before, that we are bound only in rejection of religion; of course some of us are bastards.

    Show me a group with more than 10 people in it that contains no bastards. I bet the local church-group couldn’t pass this test.

    I would be willing to wager that you came here because your own belief is somewhat fragile (“…you only walk in the direction that you look…”), and that perhaps, when you entered a forum, you posted from the position of a believer, and then got attacked by the bastards.

    This is unfortunate. While I do appreciate the rich tapestry of vulgarity that is Choobus, I also have pretty thick skin. Atheism is very much about realizing that every person is the center of their own universe, and that these universes are always bumping against one another. Just because you are trying to have a serious debate doesn’t mean Choobus is.

    Atheism also (for the most part) presupposes:

    • People are born generally good-natured (or else we would have killed ourselves off long before the age of the Christian).
    • There is a difference between thoughts and actions. You can think anything you like; it’s just a thought.
    • You can do anything you want, as long as it doesn’t mess up someone else’s ability to do the same.
    • The human mind a capable of understanding anything and everything in the universe.
    • The earth is a good place, but it would be nice if these religious people would stop killing each other.

    The list goes on and on. Note that these aren’t hard and fast “rules” of atheism, they are implied by the absense of a god. Religion is a tool of control, which by its very nature means that there are groups of people out there who believe that you are too stupid to manage your own affairs.

    And, to be honest, there are plenty of facets of religion that are very constructive. Church can be a great social outlet, and in hard-times can offer a solid support network. But these things would work just as well without a god.

  79. Thorngod
    March 11th, 2006 @ 12:42 pm

    Simbol, I tried to post thank-you for correction on Rubaiyat LXIII Fri pm, but it disappeared into some abyss. Anyhow, I was typing from memory and thought “punishments” for penalties, and somehow misfingered “Rubaiyat.” I did not bother to credit both authors. Fitzgerald characterized his Rubaiyat not as a translation, but, I think, a “transliteration,” more patterned on than copied. In fact, some literary scholars who are also spirit faithers claim that Omar’s rubaiyat were philosophically opposite Fitzgerald’s.

  80. Lily
    March 11th, 2006 @ 2:02 pm

    Chris:
    I can see that I spent too much time in the forums, recently. I missed this whole exchange.

    What I want to say to you now is this: don’t let this experience shake you or make you withdraw from engagement with the world. What you see here is an illustration of how complex we human beings are; how diverse in interests, experience, spiritual, emotional and intellectual makeup etc.

    Even though there are some pretty ripe characters here, as you have noted, the fact is that the overwhelming majority are decent people and people that we would mostly like, if they were our neighbors and colleagues. While I am sorry that some of them think we would jail them or kill them, if given the chance, I am pretty sure that the majority are actually sane.

    You have gotten a pretty good view of the kinds of issues that engage non-believers. It is definitely worth taking them seriously and learning all you can. It will not only enrich your faith but it will certainly enrich your appreciation of the amazingly complex world in which we live.

    One site that you may find helpful, if you are not already familiar with it is Bede’s library: http://www.bede.org.uk/
    I have spent many happy hours reading articles that I have found through that site and this is only one of many out there. God bless you!

  81. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 5:27 pm

    Thanks Lily. IloveBede’s library. Atheists ought to read it, but I can see why they choose not to. I don’t know how you and SBW put up with these nasty people.

    God bless you.

  82. Facehammer
    March 11th, 2006 @ 5:49 pm

    *Vomits prodigiously*

  83. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 7:43 pm

    facehammer, I appreciate you helping to prove me right by showing that atheists here are mostly jerks.

  84. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 7:47 pm

    by the way “facehammer”, what kind of a name is that? Could it be that you are so ugly it looks like somebody took a hammer to your face?

    you can give it, let’s see if you can take it.

  85. If Uckedc Hrist Rebo Rn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 10:49 pm

    It’s pretty clear by now that Chris Treborn is a closet faggot, just like his imaginary hero Jezus Christ. He would love to fu-ck Jezus up the arse. And I don’t blame him. The artists that have depicted JC in the past were homos too, and the only way they could get away with painting sexy naked dudes was to paint JC. I often go to churches myself, not to send telepathic messages to JC, but to admire JC’s crack and to meet fellow homos. Statistically speaking, the odds that I have fu-cked Chris Treborn are pretty good, even if my prior belief was very low.

  86. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 10:57 pm

    Choobus, is that you? You are pathetic. As I have said, ad nauseum, homosexuality is clearly forbidden in the bible and it is only disgusting people like you who like to use the anus for un natural purposes. You can make all the filthy jokes you like about Jesus, his love transcends your hate without effort. Why don’t you grow up you dork?

  87. If Uckedc Hrist Rebo Rn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 11:18 pm

    No Chris, it’s me. Your anus fitted perfectly around my dick, so good in fact it must have been designed, so it is un natural and therefore it is perfectly aw right to use your pleasure hole in an un natural way.

  88. Chris Treborn
    March 11th, 2006 @ 11:25 pm

    ladies and gentlemen, the face of atheism. You must all be so proud. Honestly, choobus, or whomever you may be, I really think you might be borderline retarded.

  89. Facehammer
    March 12th, 2006 @ 7:38 am

    by the way “facehammer”, what kind of a name is that? Could it be that you are so ugly it looks like somebody took a hammer to your face?

    And you say atheists are weak.

  90. jahrta
    March 12th, 2006 @ 1:27 pm

    A homophobic tard uttered the following:

    “Jahrta: what can I say about this person. Rude, no ability to debate and frankly intellectually lame. Reminds me of a character in a Steinbeck novel.

    -I’m sorry if the poor wittle bitty theist who wanders onto a blog site dedicated to atheism has his delicate wittle feelings hurt when we expose him for the weak-minded, poorly-edumacated redneck slob he is. I personally doubt that you’ve ever read a Steinbeck novel, let alone graduated the fifth grade. If you perceive my debating skills as lacking it’s probably because you wre taught that a debate must include no fewer than five scripture quotes, followed with apologetic gushing to “the Lawd.” Chris – I’ll make this really simple for you. Point to one debating point i’ve made so far and explain to me what you think makes it “lame.” I can point to HUNDREDS you’ve made to date that many christians I know would be appalled to see come from “one of their own.”

    “In short, I am unimpressed by the combined might of your atheist intellect. All you have proved is that you are rude and have no respect for other people. I probably won’t bother coming back here because there don’t appear to be any people worth conversing with.”

    -No one is here to impress you. This is an online community for those who have rejected religion and the notion of a god. Although you haven’t been banned (yet) you certainly came here of your own free will. You can also leave of your own free will, even though i forsee you sticking around for quite some time as you seem to truly enjoy the humiliation of being exposed for the biggoed homophobe you are. My guess is that you’ve spent most of your life in the bible belt. are you a texan? We have respect for other people, chris – just not people like you. You have demonstrated adequately that you are not deserving of respect.

    “You might as well elect the vile choobus as your spokesperson, because as a likely homosexual with a below average IQ, he is probably a very good representation of atheists in general.”

    -So according to you, atheists are all homosexuals of diminished intellect. Interesting theory, and very telling of your particular prejudices and “fine christian upbringing.” I wonder how many “faggots” you’ve dragged behind your Ford F150 on Saturday nights with your pals, uncle dad Billy Bob Joe and your cousin brother Joe Bob Billy.

  91. Chris Tisnuts
    March 12th, 2006 @ 7:07 pm

    I actually almost enjoy reading the intolerant drivel written by Chris Treborn. It’s so bad it’s almost good. Almost but not quite. Unfortunately, it’s faithful and brain dead “foot soldiers” like him that may turn America into a neofascist state. On Uncommon Descent it is claimed that atheist readers of Panda’s Thumb are responsible for burning down those churches in SC. That sounds a lot like the nazis claiming “un-German elements” burned the Reichstag in the thirties. We all know what happened afterwards. The rise of the nazis was quite gradual, and I see a very similar thing happening right now.
    Having said that, I think a big dick up Chris his tight arse might make him join us godless faggot idiots and we’ll have one less enemy to worry about.

  92. Chris Treborn
    March 12th, 2006 @ 9:20 pm

    choobus, don’t you realize that changing your name but talking about homosexual sex will give you away? I suppose not, because you are an idiot.
    Jahrta, I don’t condone killng homosexuals. I don’t condone their buggery either, but it is not for me to judge them, that is for god. Calling me a homophobe is dumb. I just don’t want to see people reject god for no reason.

  93. Nokot
    March 13th, 2006 @ 3:42 am

    “As I have said, ad nauseum, homosexuality is clearly forbidden in the bible and it is only disgusting people like you who like to use the anus for un natural purposes.”

    Would you care to explain what is so unnatural about sex?

  94. hermesten
    March 13th, 2006 @ 10:26 am

    Lily: “What I want to say to you now is this: don’t let this experience shake you or make you withdraw from engagement with the world.”

    What a gal. Lily are you this desperate for someone here to take you seriously, or are you and ChrisT just two sweet little peas in the intellectual pod? Damn that Choobus, he had you pegged from day one.

  95. Facehammer
    March 13th, 2006 @ 12:15 pm

    “choobus, don’t you realize that changing your name but talking about homosexual sex will give you away?”

    MHUURRR!
    *chews on shoulder*

    It’s almost like his new name was a parody or something.

    Christians have no sense of humour.

  96. Jez Ussucks
    March 13th, 2006 @ 7:18 pm

    Chris T,

    It wasn’t Choobus having some fun with you, it was me, Jez. I am the chief of a small tribe in the mountains of Papua. Every night our generator kicks in for one hour and then I log in to the inter net with my 1986 laptop (20 kg) to communicate with outside world. All my family called Ussucks, hope you not insulted.
    In my tribe it is a sin to fuck a member of the opposite sex. This is clearly specified in our holy songs, which were taught from father to son for 200 generations. Our songs say it is a sin to worship a god because gods tend to distract us from doing good things for other humans. The females of our tribe live somewhere else, we never see them. Every night the men who are senior enough go to the holy place in the forrest where they jerk off on a wholy rock. It is said that the women come here to collect our seed for creating babies, but we have never seen that. Sometimes a new baby boy shows up in our village, and we nurture him with the milk of our buffalo. When a man is old enough, he is allowed to join in our nightly feasts where we love each other and play with our holy penises. It is great fun. We cannot imagine how sex with a woman could be fun. They don’t know the penis as well as men do, how could they know how to handle it?

    Oh shit, the generator is about to run out of fuel. Gotta go now!

    Your Jez

  • Basic Assumptions

    First, there is a God.

    Continue Reading...

  • Search

  • Quote of the Day

    • Fifty Random Links

      See them all on the links page.

      • No Blogroll Links