The Raving Theist

Dedicated to Jesus Christ, Now and Forever

Voices of Life: Jamila A., a/k/a SmartBlkWoman of A Day in the Life

January 30, 2006 | 105 Comments

The Raving Atheist welcomes (again) Jamila A., a/k/a SmartBlkWoman of A Day in the Life as TRA’s first Voice of Life. Jamila is a twenty-two year old single mother of one who is planning on joining the military.

_________________________________________________________________________-

Abortion is NOT Empowering!!

I have waaaay to many friends that have had abortions. Why are so many abortions performed every year when birth control is easier to find than a water fountain? When I was in college, condoms were sold right next to candy bars in the vending machines.

I hate to sound hypocritical and judgmental but I think that if you get pregnant you need to deal with the consequences of your actions and bear the child. Abortion has become the new birth control. Abortion has taken Fido’s place as man’s best friend. Now a man can lay down with a women he wouldn’t be caught dead with in the morning light, get her pregnant, and then tell her to have an abortion. Many women today, having the low self-esteem that they do for the most part can usually be easily talked into an abortion, even if in their hearts they want to keep the child.

What has so many feminists saying that abortion is “a woman’s right” when so many women are getting abortions because the man doesn’t want them to keep the baby? Or it might be their families that are against them having the baby. Do they consider the fact that society is very unfriendly towards women with children? NOPE, because you got a lot of feminists acting like “the master’s tool,” a/k/a men’s puppets.

I’ll be for real, my child’s father tried to get me to get an abortion and for a moment I thought about it but then I came to my senses and realized that this man didn’t care about the life of this child but only about his freedom. So after some thought I said to myself “fuck him”. If he didn’t want to have a child with me he shoulda bought more condoms and been more careful. I also should have been more careful ’cause now I can barely stand the man. Oh well, alls well that ends well and I rest assured that things will end well for me and my baby.

What has got feminists thinking that hopping up on a doctors table and getting your uterus vacuumed out is empowering? What has got feminists thinking that abortion is empowering when the reasons most women get abortions is because they don’t have the support system to take care of their child or the man doesn’t want to deal with their asses after he has hit it and quit it?

The year after abortion was legalized in this country the pregnancy rate went up 30% but the birth rate went down 6%. Abortion became the new birth control and folks started acting a fool cause they could always pay a few hundred bucks and get rid of the problem (a/k/a the child) later.

If you want to reduce the pregnancy rate and encourage responsibility, get rid of abortion. Men, if you lay up with a chick you betta use protection because this women could be your future “baby momma”. Ladies if you lay up with a man you betta use protection because you might give birth to a son who may end up being as triflin’ as his daddy. We need to go back to the good old days . . . you got a woman pregnant, you married her and handled your responsibilities. NO IFS, AND, OR BUTS. If this happened I can assure anyone that the pregnancy rate would go significantly down and birth control use would go significantly up.

Comments

105 Responses to “Voices of Life: Jamila A., a/k/a SmartBlkWoman of A Day in the Life”

  1. Kafkaesquí
    January 31st, 2006 @ 1:45 am

    I have waaaay to many friends that have had abortions.

    Really? And how many is waaaay to many?

    When I was in college, condoms were sold right next to candy bars in the vending machines.

    That’s good, right?

    I hate to sound hypocritical and judgmental

    Then why do you bother?

    I think that if you get pregnant you need to deal with the consequences of your actions and bear the child.

    Since you narrow this down to an issue of consequences, you must be for that person (or persons) caring for and raising the child, as well. Adoption is just another cop out, when looked at this way.

    Abortion has become the new birth control.

    Um, it *is* a form a birth control. Always has been. Did you think there was only one kind?

    Abortion has taken Fido’s place as man’s best friend.

    This analogy leads to all sorts of weird images related to Fido sleeping in my lap, Fido drinking out of the toilet, etc.

    Now a man can lay down with a women he wouldn’t be caught dead with in the morning light, get her pregnant, and then tell her to have an abortion.

    I was unaware men telling women to have abortions was the new law. Because if a man tells you to get one, YOU MUST DO SO YES INDEED. A strange world you live in. And “lay down with?” I assume you mean “fuck,” as just reclining with a woman will not lead to all these pregnancies I’ll be demanding abortions for.

    Many women today, having the low self-esteem that they do for the most part can usually be easily talked into an abortion, even if in their hearts they want to keep the child.

    Thanks, Dr. Phil.

    What has so many feminists saying that abortion is “a woman’s right” when so many women are getting abortions because the man doesn’t want them to keep the baby?

    Just maybe perhaps some of these women don’t want to keep the baby, too? I know, an unlikely choice for a pregnant feminist to make. Nevertheless…

    Or it might be their families that are against them having the baby. Do they consider the fact that society is very unfriendly towards women with children? NOPE, because you got a lot of feminists acting like “the master’s tool,” a/k/a men’s puppets.

    I think you’ve really convinced the fems with this one. But society is “very unfriendly towards women with children”??? Which society would this be? Please provide some evidence to back up the nonsense.

    I’ll be for real, my child’s father tried to get me to get an abortion and for a moment I thought about it but then I came to my senses and realized that this man didn’t care about the life of this child but only about his freedom.

    Ah, finally the anecdotal proof we’ve been looking for that abortion is WRONG. All pro-choicers will forever have your selection of sex partners to blame for their downfall.

    So after some thought I said to myself “fuck him”.

    Isn’t that how you got into your situation?

    If he didn’t want to have a child with me he shoulda bought more condoms and been more careful.

    Yes, it sure would be nice if science could come up with a way for women to protect themselves during sexual intercourse…

    I also should have been more careful ’cause now I can barely stand the man. Oh well, alls well that ends well and I rest assured that things will end well for me and my baby.

    Well, that’s good. I think.

    What has got feminists thinking that hopping up on a doctors table and getting your uterus vacuumed out is empowering?

    Gee, I don’t know. Maybe it’s all about THEM getting to decide what’s to happen to THEIR body, and not YOU?

    What has got feminists thinking that abortion is empowering when the reasons most women get abortions is because they don’t have the support system to take care of their child or the man doesn’t want to deal with their asses after he has hit it and quit it?

    Are you suggesting a solution with a money-back guarantee that will put this magical support system in place? Because if you are, I didn’t see it.

    The year after abortion was legalized in this country the pregnancy rate went up 30% but the birth rate went down 6%.

    Some could claim the increase was in *reported* pregnancies, since a woman going for a LEGAL abortion would be officially recorded as having been pregnant. I hope you’re aware there was a long period in this country when many pregnancies went unreported. Go ahead, try and guess at the reasons.

    Abortion became the new birth control and folks started acting a fool cause they could always pay a few hundred bucks and get rid of the problem (a/k/a the child) later.

    Again with this “new birth control” point you keep trying to make. You don’t want to accept that abortion is a ‘method for controlling birth,’ fine. But that’s what it is.

    If you want to reduce the pregnancy rate and encourage responsibility, get rid of abortion.

    We did. Or rather, we didn’t have it in the first place. But it didn’t seem to do much to “reduce the pregnancy rate and encourage responsibility” back then. Why else would we have allowed for such an irresponsible option as abortion?!

    Men, if you lay up with a chick you betta use protection because this women could be your future “baby momma”.

    Folksy wisdom puts forth. I certain will be followin’ your advising, ma’am.

    Ladies if you lay up with a man you betta use protection because you might give birth to a son who may end up being as triflin’ as his daddy.

    A bit of “do as I say, not as I did” dictum?

    We need to go back to the good old days

    That would be the days of slavery and death by the age of 35 from smallpox? But we could keep our doors open at night and there was none of that nasty abortion around to worry ourselves over, so they certainly were good days.

    NO IFS, AND, OR BUTS. If this happened I can assure anyone that the pregnancy rate would go significantly down and birth control use would go significantly up.

    On the oft chance your assurances are nowhere near the mark (it could happen), do you offer to take in every unwanted baby born during this future time when condoms will be both plenty and used?

    So your argument, as I understand it, boils down to the idea that we must get rid of abortion to deal with womens’ low self-esteem. Wouldn’t it be smarter to convince them to enroll in a few self-help courses?

  2. Mookie
    January 31st, 2006 @ 2:13 am

    Next.

  3. leelion
    January 31st, 2006 @ 3:39 am

    There will always be demand for abortion whether legal or illegal, from prostitutes to the poor to the daughters and wives of doctors and politicians of all colours and political persuasions. It’s either above ground or underground. Governments should not be involved and their interference complicates the issue.

    And never forget the reality of law enforcement. Police Officers with guns. They are necessary, but are you prepared to put a gun to a woman’s head and demand she carries a fetus to full term? Violaters of anti-abortion laws will either be arrested, wounded by the police while resisting arrest or shot dead while resisting arrest. Those are the options.

  4. Les
    January 31st, 2006 @ 9:27 am

    There’s an awful lot of claims and assurances made in this entry with very little to back them up. It’s also a bit simplistic in assuming that all abortions are undertaken for the same selfish reasons. The argument that access to abortion promotes irresponsibility is not a given nor is her conclusion that removing such access would result in a lowering of unwanted pregnancies.

  5. franky
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:14 am

    I think personal responsibility is a great message. However, it would be one-sided to assume that people will start becoming personally responsible because abortion is now illegal. Education is key. Abortion shouldn’t be viewed as birth control, it should be viewed as something to be done in extenuating circumstances.

  6. benjamin
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:22 am

    I always thought that the pro-choice crowd should be working harder to eliminate the number of abortions performed yearly than the pro-life crowd. Hundreds of thousands of abortions is not indicative of unavoidable/emergency use, so it empowers the arguments of the pro-life crowd that careless people are using it as birth control. This forces the pro-choice crowd to defend the practice in order to defend the legality of abortion. Things would be different if only 1-2 thousand abortions were performed yearly.

  7. Viole
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:25 am

    Bloody hell, RA. We’ve already dealt with this crap once in the last week, isn’t that enough? I mean, we’ve got this idiot woman pining for the ‘good old days’ like a KKK member. “Oh, things were so good back then, when only we didn’t have to choose!”

    Don’t you get it, Jamila? That’s what personal empowerment is; the right to make a choice. Low self-esteem is another issue entirely, and the way to fix that isn’t to take away responsibility.

    I mean, you’ve really got this Christianity thing down. When someone does something you don’t like? Threaten them. Force them to deal with the consequences in the way you want them to. That isn’t dealing at all, it’s suffering through. It sure isn’t going to increase a woman’s self-esteem if you all end up as housewives.

    Now, off with you. Go kill some Iraqi children for Life.

  8. The No God Boy
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:46 am

    This represents a shocking set of opinions.

    Why SHOULDN’T a woman have access to abortion on demand – for any reasons what-so-ever? Women are not cattel.

    Frankly though, you can be way in favor of abortion without getting in to the who “when does life begin” mess.

    If abortion were outlawed it would mark the first time there was a medical proceedure you couldn’t have on your own body.

    This is a scary precedent.

    What happens when congress is overrun with Jehova’s witnesses? Remember, people didn’t think the whole evangellical mess would get so out of hand either.

    Next thing you know you couldn’t get a blood transfusion or an organ transplant because it was immoral, violated god’s law or who knows what. The catholics would outlaw birth control entirely because, remember, every sprem is sacred.

    Its far far far better that we leave people and their bodies to themselves.

    If abortion isn’t for you, don’t have one.
    If you believe in responsibility, carry a condom.

    Leave othere people alone.

    There is no god.

  9. Erik
    January 31st, 2006 @ 11:33 am

    Whether abortion is a right protected by the Constitution is a proper subject for debate. What is indisputable, however, is that if Roe is overturned, most states will dramatically restrict abortion, if not criminalize it outright. And the impetus driving such a result will be overwhelmingly religious in nature and fervor. The RA knows this, which may be why he has not, to my knowledge, taken a position on whether abortion should be criminalized. Jamila is taking the contra-Roe position without considering the actual consequences.

  10. rhinoqulous
    January 31st, 2006 @ 12:02 pm

    “Abortion has taken Fido’s place as man’s best friend.”

    All I can picture now is a happy family playing frisbee in the park with an aborted fetus. What a strange view of abortion this lady has.

  11. Kafkaesquí
    January 31st, 2006 @ 12:26 pm

    What benjamin, and give up our “get two abortions and the third is free” special?! But it’s been so successful…

  12. Anthony J Fuchs
    January 31st, 2006 @ 1:21 pm

    I like when ignorant people open their mouths and remove all doubts of their ignorance. It gives me something to do between beers.

    Thank you, Jamila, for calling me a “consequence.” Because I was the result of my mother “laying up with a man” with protection. Ironically, I didn’t “end up being as triflin’ as” my daddy, but rather reached an intelligent and logically reasoned atheistic position.

    So you see, the “live with the consequences” adage doesn’t really pan as well when the “consequence” is a human being who can suffer emotional and financial traumas for something with which they were completely uninvolved.

    Read my essay, and you’ll understand just how cruel and inhumane it would be to stop abortion: http://www.geocities.com/end_religion/012006.html

  13. PhalsePhrophet
    January 31st, 2006 @ 2:03 pm

    Why would a women want to have the child of a one night stand who couldn’t stand to look at her in the morning? Why do women consensually have sex without forcing men to use condoms or use birth control themselves? Perhaps it is the genetic/animal instinct in us that gives us the drive to spread or receive the seed, regardless of the donor?
    I think the newest voice of life is a little naïve on the whole matter. Abortion is not man’s new best friend. It is not the preferred method of birth control. Abortion is never going to go away. Rape, incest, malfunctioning birth control, and medical necessity will always be present somewhere in life.
    Meanwhile, where are the voices on birth defects? 3.5 million children die every year from preventable birth defects including defects caused by STD’s, fetal alcohol syndrome, and drugs. What about the starving children dieing of hunger and related diseases? Do we just want to reproduce for reproductions sake, and then let reality take over?
    I say we care for and support the children who made it into the world already and leave it up to the women to decide for themselves whether to abort or not. It is their bodies that must sustain the process. I do not promote abortion, I do not like the amount of abortions performed annually, I do not like the division caused by the issue, however, I do not believe all the voices are totally sincere about protecting life when children are dying from preventable causes every day and these same voices remain silent.

  14. Choobus
    January 31st, 2006 @ 2:21 pm

    why is this moronic bitch still polluting TRA with her teenage morality and simpleton ideas? At first it was funny, but now it’s just pathetic.

  15. Thorngod
    January 31st, 2006 @ 3:23 pm

    ANTHONY J F– I read your essay. Here I’ve been manufacturing what I thought were flashlights for thirty years, and now I discover they’re only gismos or such until customers take them home and put batteries in them. You’ve ranked yourself among that 90+% of the U.S. population that keeps arguiing over the inane question, “When does life begin?” Life does not begin at 40, or at birth, or even at conception. The zygote that becomes an embryo is alive, and was produced by the union of a living egg and a living sperm. Life, human or other, is a continuum. What pro-choicers and embryophiles are really disputing is whether or not there is a soul in a cytoblast, OR (where the embryophile is not a spiritualist) whether a foetus, though it has no nerveous system, no mind, no sentiments and no ambitions, may still feel exquisite pain and be sheerly horrified by what the abortionist is about to inflict on it. This is really the crux of the conflict, and your attempts at arbitrary definitions will enlighten us not.

  16. tim the enchanter
    January 31st, 2006 @ 3:44 pm

    SBW needs a few more years’ seasoning in the minor leagues

  17. tarkovsky
    January 31st, 2006 @ 4:01 pm

    I personally like SBW’s pitch. It is human, it is down-to-earth and real (unless a lot of philosophical b*sh*t posted left and right).

    What I find interesting is this: power is meant to alter perceptions and attitudes in society. But once they are in fact altered (in time), what becomes of the original power struggle?

    Follow me please.

    Example: feminists go radical (burn their bras, and so on) in the sixties to march against macho men. OK so we yield. The macho men go “soft”, they become “sensitive” and “caring”. Now however we get (as a direct result?) Christina Aguilera and all sorts of T&A on MTV and whatnot. What’s the deal here? And now men go on the internet and get tons of free porn. What is women’s next move? I can’t wait to see in ten years, this is gonna be fun.

    But to the point:

    Other example: in the seventies we had discotheque sexual promiscuity, then we had eighties AIDS awareness coupled with the “gentler, softer” race of men evoked earlier. Behold: men’s attitude towards *catching diseases* has evolved, but not their attitude towards unwanted pregnancies.

    So does this legitimate in any way the use of legislation/power to force men to change their attitudes? In other words, should we render abortion illegal to force men to change? Is that in fact the right way?

    I say SBW’s pitch is right on the dot: the right for *a woman* to abortion is way different that the right for a man to be irresponsible in matters of sexuality.

    One is obviously a consequence of the other, wouldnt you say?

    Now tell me: how would *you* go about making men more responsible?

  18. SmartBlkWoman
    January 31st, 2006 @ 4:16 pm

    I’m writing this before I read anybodies responses. I think that its necessary to give a little background on this post of mine.

    1. I would call my beliefs on abortion pro-choice/anti-abortion. What I mean by this is that there are very valid reasons for having an abortion and that not all abortions are done for the wrong reason. I think that virtually all abortions are equal to legalized murder, but that doesn’t in and of itself mean that abortion in all cases should be illegal.

    2. Most of my friends have had abortions. They either didn’t know who they were pregnant by ( promiscuity), the father didn’t want the baby, the family didn’t want the girl to have the baby, and in a few instances the girl herself didn’t want the baby.

    3. Many of my friends that have had abortions already had children so they were well aware of how to prevent pregnancy.

    4. The tone of this essay is one of me ranting and raving about my own feelings on abortion. If you wanted my scholarly and thoughful approach to the abortion debate this was not it.

    5. I used alot of slang in the essay because I wanted it to have an irreverent tone.

    6. One of my goals is to do all that I can to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country and hopefully one day abortions will become exceedingly rare.

    Now I am going to read what everybody who posted before me wrote.

  19. Thorngod
    January 31st, 2006 @ 4:53 pm

    ANTHONY J F– I read your essay. Here I’ve been manufacturing what I thought were flashlights for thirty years and never knew they were merely gizmos or such until customers got them home and put batteries in them! You have ranked yourself among the 90+% of U.S. denizens who have been disputing for years over the inane question, “When does life begin?” Life does not begin at 40, nor at birth, nor at conception. All life, including human life, is a continuum. The zygote from which the foetus will evolve is alive, and was produced from the union of a living egg and a living sperm. Though they seem to be utterly blind to the fact, it is not really “life” over which pro-choicers and embryophiles are so fiercely contending. The dispute arises from the embryophile’s belief that a zygote has a soul, OR in the case of non-spiritualist embryophiles, the fear that a week-old foetus (which has no nerveous system, no intellect, no sentiments or ambitions) is nevertheless capable of experiencing excruciating pain and of being horrified by what the abortionist is about to inflict on it. So your attempt at those arbitrary and sorely inexact definitions is a futile exercise, and is of no use or interest to either side.

  20. Jody Tresidder
    January 31st, 2006 @ 5:01 pm

    …and if anyone else has glanced at the rest of SBW’s blog…it reads like sanctimonious Hallmark drivel spiced with comic hypocrisy – e.g. when God helps her to get rid of her anger towards the ne’er do well Marine who is her daughter’s father. Luckily, God waits to soothe SBW until AFTER she’s sent a blunt letter to the guy’s CO about the Marine’s refusal to take a paternity test. (It is SBW who draws attention to God’s small miracle of timing in this matter – not me).

    It’s hard to know why RA is exposing her blog in this way.

    I suspected that maybe RA was coaching SBW in her “artless” scepticism about atheism/abortion. But that would be as stupid as the postings from Lucy “Troll” Muff.

    Still, it’s all a bit odd.

  21. PhalsePhrophet
    January 31st, 2006 @ 5:36 pm

    Why would a single mom who puts raising their child first join the military? That’s what many of the trifling men do to support their family and get away from that one night stand they’ve knocked up. They know the money will be there all the time and they won’t be there most of the time. Did she reject abortion only to pass off her child to others?

  22. PhalsePhrophet
    January 31st, 2006 @ 5:38 pm

    Why would a women want to have the child of a one night stand who couldn’t stand to look at her in the morning? Why do women consensually have sex without forcing men to use condoms or use birth control themselves? Perhaps it is the genetic/animal instinct in us that gives us the drive to spread or receive the seed, regardless of the donor?
    I think the newest voice of life is a little naïve on the whole matter. Abortion is not man’s new best friend. It is not the preferred method of birth control. Abortion is never going to go away. Rape, incest, malfunctioning birth control, and medical necessity will always be present somewhere in life.
    Meanwhile, where are the voices on birth defects? 3.5 million children die every year from preventable birth defects including defects caused by STD’s, fetal alcohol syndrome, and drugs. What about the starving children dieing of hunger and related diseases? Do we just want to reproduce for reproductions sake, and then let reality take over?
    I say we care for and support the children who made it into the world already and leave it up to the women to decide for themselves whether to abort or not. It is their bodies that must sustain the process. I do not promote abortion, I do not like the amount of abortions performed annually, I do not like the division caused by the issue, however, I do not believe all the voices are totally sincere about protecting life when children are dying from preventable causes every day and these same voices remain silent.

  23. Choobus
    January 31st, 2006 @ 5:43 pm

    At lucy muff is obviously taking the piss. This cretinous fool is quite serious, and quite an idiot. Having said that the following does speak to her potential as a great new literary voice:

    “Men, if you lay up with a chick you betta use protection because this women could be your future “baby momma”. Ladies if you lay up with a man you betta use protection because you might give birth to a son who may end up being as triflin’ as his daddy.”

    Terry Schiavo cvouldn’t have said it better. This “smart” blkdork is like a bizarre combination of Dr Phil, Montel, Pat Robertson and a large quantity of sewage, but slightly more odious. The most disturbing thing about her posts is the reminder that this dildo is able to reproduce, and apparantly after a jagermesiter or two has no problem doing so.

  24. David M
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:05 pm

    Could you give a cite for the 30% pregnancy rate increase that you state? I couldn’t find any numbers but I did find that you’re full of shit about the birth rate decrease. Typical anti-abortion propaganda. What irrational company RA has to keep on this issue!

    Year….Birth Rate…% change from
    ……….per 1000…..prev. year

    70……18.4………..2.8
    71……17.2……….-6.5
    72……15.6……….-9.3
    73*….14.8……….-5.1
    74……14.8………..0.0
    75……14.6……….-1.3

    * roe v wade decided
    source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/statab/t001x01.pdf

  25. SmartBlkWoman
    January 31st, 2006 @ 10:26 pm

    David M said: Could you give a cite for the 30% pregnancy rate increase that you state?

    Its in the national bestseller Freakonomics by Steven D Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner on pg. 139

    If you read the book you will see that it is anything but anti-abortion propaganda. Millions of other people have read the book and read the statistic and none of them have issued a public outry about it being false. Perhaps next time you should just ask someone to prove where they got their information from before saying they are lying?

  26. David M
    January 31st, 2006 @ 11:04 pm

    You have severally misrepresented what Levitt claims. You stated “The year after abortion was legalized in this country the pregnancy rate went up 30% but the birth rate went down 6%.” whereas on pg. 139 he states “Conceptions rose by nearly 30 percent, but births actually fell by 6 percent…” but gives no time frame over which this occurred. Perhaps you were confused by his quote 4 paragraphs earlier on pg. 138 that read “In the first year after Roe v. Wade, some 750,000 women had abortions in the United States….”

    Unfortunately, the book is targeting a popular readership and thus has no footnotes so we cannot look at the data he is referencing but it is certainly true that he was not referring to the year after roe v wade.

  27. David M
    January 31st, 2006 @ 11:08 pm

    PS – I didn’t say you were lying I said you were full of shit. I think we’ve shown that in this instance I’m right.

  28. ProveIt
    January 31st, 2006 @ 11:31 pm

    (1)If he didn’t want to have a child with me he shoulda bought more condoms and been more careful. I also should have been more careful ’cause now I can barely stand the man. (2)Oh well, alls well that ends well and I rest assured that things will end well for me and my baby.

    (1) He should have bought more condoms. You have no responsibilty, is that what you’re getting at? Your only fault was letting the wrong man into your pants. I see.
    (2) Letting someone else raise your baby while run off to play GI Jane is surely the best thing for the child. No, seriously. Do the child a favor and go.

    (1)What has got feminists thinking that hopping up on a doctors table and getting your uterus vacuumed out is empowering? (2)What has got feminists thinking that abortion is empowering when the reasons most women get abortions is because they don’t have the support system to take care of their child or the man doesn’t want to deal with their asses after he has hit it and quit it?

    (1) Empowering? No. You gain no control over anyone else or any thing by having an abortion. You maintain what you currently have. What power is it that you see these women who have had abortions coming away with? Exactly who is it that they are gaining power over?
    (2) You think that the only reason to stand up and fight for rights and promote pro-choice is to protect the little girls who haven’t been taught how to care for their bodies? Have you thought about the many other complications, physical harms, situations of abuse that may make having an abortion necessary? Just because a man knocked your dumb ass up by ‘hitting it and quitting it’, as you put it, doesn’t mean that every abortion is the result of a faulty, naive, unhealthy relationship.

    (1)The year after abortion was legalized in this country the pregnancy rate went up 30% but the birth rate went down 6%. Abortion became the new birth control and folks started acting a fool cause they could always pay a few hundred bucks and get rid of the problem (a/k/a the child) later.

    (1)First. If you are going to pull statistics out of your ass we can just stop here. Second. I’m sure that upon further inspection you may notice that there is more behind statistics than meets the eye. Did the pregnancy rate go up? Did the birth rate go down? Could be. But you may just be seeing the tip of the iceburg. Do you have any idea how many women didn’t ‘report’ the fact that they were even pregnant before this law was overturned? How many dangerous alternatives were performed? How many untold births there were? How many children were sold?

    (1) If you want to reduce the pregnancy rate and encourage responsibility, get rid of abortion. (2)Men, if you lay up with a chick you betta use protection because this women could be your future “baby momma”. (3) Ladies if you lay up with a man you betta use protection because you might give birth to a son who may end up being as triflin’ as his daddy. (4) We need to go back to the good old days . . . you got a woman pregnant, you married her and handled your responsibilities. NO IFS, AND, OR BUTS. (5) If this happened I can assure anyone that the pregnancy rate would go significantly down and birth control use would go significantly up.

    (1) Get rid of abortion. Yes, right. Becuase no one would think to preform unregulated abortions? You seriously want to go back to the days of shoving coat hangers up your twat?
    (2) If you are so ignorant that you need to be reminded of this everytime you have sex I’m sure we could all chip in and raise enough money to buy you a poster to hang above your bed.
    (3) Save the head shaking finger waggin for someone that respects what you’re preachin.
    (4) The good old days. Right… I remember those days. Men keepin the little ladies at home where they belonged. No sense in you going out of the house. Beat you when they want. You think we have a problem with unwanted children now… wait till you tell a man he’s in control of you and see just how many unwanted little fucks you pop out. Hope you find one of those [good men] you speak of. Read up… I think you’ll find that it wasn’t exactly the case.
    (5)Lemme get this straight… You assume that in a committed relationship birth control use will increase? How’s that? Any man I’ve ever talked to would love to stop wearing a condom. You put a ring on his finger and see how long that condom lasts sweetheart.

    Do us a favor. Instead of taking your naive twenty two year old mind over to that battle… Grab a freakin book. You have much more learning to do than you can imagine. You think that precious army is going to put you to school cause you saw it on a commercial? Fuck, they probably will. But how is your getting smarter going to help you when you’re missing limbs? That is to assume that you make it back alive… to get some learning in. Wake the fuck up.

  29. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 12:58 am

    @david m

    The pregnancy rate ( number of women who become pregnant not differentiating between pregnancy outcomes) is the same as the conception rate. From 1973 through 1975 the number of abortions per year increased by about 200,000. A higher number of abortions per year is to be expected and the number increased until leveled off for about the last decade. The conception rate ( pregnancy rate) increased after roe v wade and the birth rate went down.

    As you said, the book doesn’ t give specific years.

    If I’m not a lying then what am I full of shit about? If you just don’t like my post then say that. If I’m not a liar but I’m full of shit then please elaborate.

  30. Choobus
    February 1st, 2006 @ 1:28 am

    I vote full of shit.

    david M 1, dope cow 0

  31. allonym
    February 1st, 2006 @ 2:27 am

    SmartBlkWoman,
    You misrepresented (perhaps misunderstood) information which you read, and which was never properly sourced in the first place. Not lying per se, but full of shit (bad information) to be sure.

    You know, I recall watching a pro-life conference on C-SPAN a couple months ago, and this one woman was saying (and I paraphrase) “Those pro-abortionists are calling themselves ‘pro-choice’. But all they want to do is take choice away! They want to take away our choice to speak our mind about a practice (abortion) that we find abhorrent…” I couldn’t believe I had witnessed such a hypocritical, logic-defying idea being proferred, and to so gullible an audience (as evidenced by the ensuing applause).

    It is the pro-life position that wants to remove choice. It’s just like the anti-gay-marriage stance, or the anti-physician-assisted-suicide stance, or the anti-recreational-drug stance – it’s one group of people wanting to tell another group of people how to conduct their lives and treat their bodies, even when they have little or no personal stake in the matter. What effect does it have on you if some woman a thousand miles away (or even next door) decides to end her pregnancy? Probably none, so why do you feel you have a right to force an interdiction? Oh yeah, I forgot that many of you claim to speak for all the little unborn children, the ones you’re likely to forget about the moment that umbilical cord is severed.

    At least in the case of recreational drug use, an opposing argument can be made on the grounds of the cost to society in the form of crime. Abortion, on the other hand, is easily argued to be more economically viable than the alternative since outlawing abortion would cause a rise in crime, increased medical liability, and a greater burden on the welfare system. I’d like to see more arguments from that angle, rather than the whole “when does life begin” thing. As atheists, shouldn’t we be more concerned about societal impact than a bunch of goofy ideas about (highly subjective) morality anyway?

    Bla bla bla, whatever.

  32. godsarefake
    February 1st, 2006 @ 2:30 am

    SmartBlkWoman,

    While I would never have an abortion or pressure another into having one, I am for keeping abortion legal. However, like many of TRA’s posts and many other abortion opponents have pointed out, abortion advocates resort to smokescreen rhetoric far too often in an effort to distract the discussion away from the actual act of aborting a child and drawing focus to more positive arguments, like trying to focus on the civil liberties portion of the abortion argument almost exclusively. I find this kind of rhetoric particularly deceptive, and I think this is partially, if not wholly responsible, for your justified complaint about abortion being called “empowering” for women. While I tend to agree with much of your argument that people are dealing with abortion in a far too casual way, I am finding some of your rhetoric to be just as misleading and overstated.

    For example, you said you equate “virtually all abortions to legalized murder” in a response above. If that were really true then I would think even one abortion would be a moral abomination to you (as would one murder). However, before you agree, I find that such a position is more likely mere hyperbole on your part. You mentioned a number of your friends have had abortions. Are not many of them still your friends even after their abortions? Would you still consider these people friends if they, say, actually murdered their mothers, rather than their unborn babies? Would you call them friends if they casually mentioned to you over coffee, one day, that they murdered one of their best friends a while back and further justified their actions by saying they agonized over the decision, but in the end, they thought they made the right decision to kill that person? Perhaps you have dumped all these friends precisely because they have murdered their unborn babies, but, if not, don’t you really think that equating virtually all abortions to legalized murder a bit too sanctimonious?

    Another case of hyperbole that you used that irked me was your implication that people you know are truly looking at abortion the same way, or as replacements for, less drastic forms of birth control and prophylactics. The mere cost in dollars, as well as in time, as well as in pain and discomfort, really do not make abortion equal in anyone’s mind to, say, condoms or the pill. Don’t you really think abortion is merely another type of, rather than a replacement for, birth control in the rationale of most of your friends, and the nation at large?

  33. David M
    February 1st, 2006 @ 2:50 am

    You wanted to show what a moral hazard abortion is so you conflated two sentences to produce an untruth. I don’t think you did it on purpose, i.e. lied, but you allowed your emotions to overcome your rationality to create a false truth (i.e. shit) that you wanted to believe. Even now I not sure you understand what you did wrong.

  34. egelston
    February 1st, 2006 @ 8:14 am

    The abortion argument stopped being about abortion 5 years ago. Its now a right vs left issue, with both sides wanting to prove the other wrong. As far as feminist go (and I understand) they dont want “men” telling them what they can/cant do with their bodies. Roe v Wade should not be over turned…..to do so would be a setback.

  35. jahrta
    February 1st, 2006 @ 9:40 am

    Why are we still discussing this bullshit where there are actual godidiot religious stories going on in the world, such as this one:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

    RA, while you’re busy driving away the majority of your readership by providing yet ANOTHER soapbox on which anti-abortion theists can deliver their rhetoric, you’re severely missing the proverbial boat here.

    Get your head back in the game, boy *Angus Scrimm stare*

  36. hermesten
    February 1st, 2006 @ 10:04 am

    In spite of all the pieties about how precious “life” is, the real motivator for many in the anti-choice crowd is stopping unauthorized sex. This fact is illustrated in the “consequences” refrain from SBW. This bunch is against everything that would reduce unwanted pregnanices, except abstinence. And, generally speaking, they’re for violence, whether it’s in the movies, or against women and children in foreign countries, like Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran.

    Step one of the anti-choice agenda is to eliminate abortion to punish people who dare to have sex out of wedlock. They don’t care if the child produced suffers, as long as the parents suffer for doing the dirty deed, and serve as a warning to others. One reason these people are so freaked out about homosexuality is that homosexual sex doesn’t produce pregancies, and hence, the consequences are generally limited to STD’s; and, of course, we hear from them all the time that AIDs is God’s punishment for sexual “sin.”

    Step two of the anti-choice agenda is to make all birth control measures illegal. The “life begins at conception” mantra is intended to kill the “pill,” which their movement blames for a rise in female “promiscuity.” These are the people who oppose sex-education, and they’re the same ignorant crowd that opposes science education when it explicitly contradicts their childish fairy tales.

    The politics of many in this crowd belie their claims to be “pro-life.” They show no particular concern for the lives of existing human beings who don’t conform to their religious doctrines, and they are against every single measure that would reduce the number of unwanted pregancies, or make life better for actual living children –like adoption by homosexual couples.

  37. Lancelot Gobbo
    February 1st, 2006 @ 10:49 am

    I had a strong desire to grab a red pen and mark that essay – spelling errors, grammatical mistakes – never mind the deficient logic and rampant self-justification. I just can’t find it within myself to take seriously someone who cannot be bothered to write out the language properly. No doubt this is a serious failing on my part, and no reflection on the points made by our ‘SmartBlkWoman’. (Curious how the only part of that name not explicitly stated was the ‘Black’ part; would we feel differently if she were a ‘SmrtBlackWoman’ or a ‘SmartBlackWmn’? For the sake of an ‘a’ and a ‘c’ I would announce these facts about myself proudly if I were you, two letters are a false economy and give the impression that you are less than pleased with your colour. If I am mistaken, then using ‘SmrtBlkWmn’ would let you save your fingers from unnecessary labour and give equal stress to all three of the characteristics you feel define you.)
    Now, Jamila, I am nor disparaging your choice to keep your unplanned child, and if the military is the way you see yourself funding the upkeep of said child and yourself I shall not inveigh against your choice. I do suspect your motive in saying others should do the same, and that consequently abortion should be banned. You see, it gives the impression you regret your choice, and would like some retro-active justification by removing the option of abortion. Think how much more value your brave choice would have as a statement of belief if there was easy, safe and free abortion – and you chose not to take advantage of it! That would really show them! The point is that you had a choice, made it, and now have to be able to say to yourself that you ‘made the best choice you could at the time’. If you can say that, then you did the right thing. That doesn’t mean that other people shouldn’t have a choice – the solution to your situation may not be the solution to theirs. Seeing that, understanding it and accepting it are signs that you are at peace with the choice you made, and I hope you get there one day.

  38. PhalsePhrophet
    February 1st, 2006 @ 11:01 am

    Why would a women want to have the child of a one night stand who couldn’t stand to look at her in the morning? Why do women consensually have sex without forcing men to use condoms or use birth control themselves? Perhaps it is the genetic/animal instinct in us that gives us the drive to spread or receive the seed, regardless of the donor?
    I think the newest voice of life is a little naïve on the whole matter. Abortion is not man’s new best friend. It is not the preferred method of birth control. Abortion is never going to go away. Rape, incest, malfunctioning birth control, and medical necessity will always be present somewhere in life.
    Meanwhile, where are the voices on birth defects? 3.5 million children die every year from preventable birth defects including defects caused by STD’s, fetal alcohol syndrome, and drugs. What about the starving children dieing of hunger and related diseases? Do we just want to reproduce for reproductions sake, and then let reality take over?
    I say we care for and support the children who made it into the world already and leave it up to the women to decide for themselves whether to abort or not. It is their bodies that must sustain the process. I do not promote abortion, I do not like the amount of abortions performed annually, I do not like the division caused by the issue, however, I do not believe all the voices are totally sincere about protecting life when children are dying from preventable causes every day and these same voices remain silent.

  39. EGELSTON
    February 1st, 2006 @ 12:59 pm

    oh yeah…i am in the military and you cannot join if you are a single parent. just a little info by the way….

  40. Choobus
    February 1st, 2006 @ 2:12 pm

    Aaah ha, no single parent cannon fodder? Makes sense I suppose, but you’d think that someone with a sharp intellect like sbw would know this.

    So what are you going to do now sbw? maybe you can get a job making bombs for anti-abortion groups. It’s a bit like being in the military: you get to blow shit up, you have a dubious moral high ground to justify your actions and your leader will be a jesus loving cretin.

  41. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 3:36 pm

    EGELSTON said: oh yeah…i am in the military and you cannot join if you are a single parent. just a little info by the way….

    Yes you can. You have to temporarily relinquish physical custody of your children. I’ve already talked to one Marine of 18 years and an officer in the Coast Guard. This information is also available on the recruiting websites.

  42. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 3:52 pm

    @phalseprophet

    I agree. I think that alot of people have taken my comments on this post out of context and they don’t know the nuanced way that I feel about abortion. I wrote another post on abortion on my site that gives a bit more about how I feel on the issue.

    @people critiquing my grammer

    Get over it folks!! It’s the internet, not English class. I assure everyone here that I have always received excellent marks in English classes. I received a 36 out of 36 on the reading portion of the ACT which places me in the 99th percentile. I know about English but my posts on my blog are just my way of writing my feelings and thoughts as they come to me. If I were writing for a grade then I would have written a much more coherent, logical, and grammatically correct essay.

    //////For the sake of an ‘a’ and a ‘c’ I would announce these facts about myself proudly if I were you, two letters are a false economy and give the impression that you are less than pleased with your colour.//////

    Lancelot if I were less than pleased with my color I would just make up a name for myself like Katherine and no one would ever be the wiser. I’ve been using “smartblkwoman” for several years and before that I was smartblkgurl since I started using the internet. I chose the name when I was about 12. No special thought went into it.

    My position isn’t that everyone should keep their unplanned children. I think that if a woman doesn’t think she’ll be good mother then she probably won’t be. My point is that the pro-lifers and the pro-choicers should get together and do all that they can to eliminate the barriers to women keeping their children and from stopping them from getting pregnant in the first place with children they don’t want.

    Also, there was easy safe and free abortion available to me. My childs father and my step-dad both offered to pay for it. I just had to show up. And I had plenty of friends that would have not only showed me where to go but drove me there.

    I am happy with my choice and think that it was the best choice. I just want to help other women to not have to make that choice and that when they do make that choice its on their own terms, not societies, not their families, not a boyfriend, but solely theirs.

  43. Jody Tresidder
    February 1st, 2006 @ 5:50 pm

    SBWoman,
    Since when has “do as I say, not as I do” ever been effective advice?

    I’ve read your blog. The one thing that seems consistent is the contradicton between what you’ve practised and what you preach.

  44. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 6:26 pm

    hermesten said: In spite of all the pieties about how precious “life” is, the real motivator for many in the anti-choice crowd is stopping unauthorized sex. This fact is illustrated in the “consequences” refrain from SBW. This bunch is against everything that would reduce unwanted pregnanices, except abstinence. And, generally speaking, they’re for violence, whether it’s in the movies, or against women and children in foreign countries, like Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran.

    What bunch of people are you talking about? The Catholics? I have never met a pro-life person that would say abstinence only education was the best way to go or that they were “for violence”. What the heck is “for violence”? I will say that there are legitimate reasons for going to war and that there are legitimate reasons for kicking someones behind but I don’t believe that this would make me for violence. The only people I can think of who are would be for abstinence only education are Catholics and I don’t even think many of them would say that everyone else should do this in their schools.

    I am for more comprehensive sex education that requires much more involvement from parents and encouraging women to try longer term methods of birth control such as IUDS, injections, and implants.

    I think the people you are referring to who are strictly anti-abortion in all cases and anti-homosexuality are a minority in the movement.

    @godsarefake

    I don’t think that this post adequately sums up my feelings on roe v wade and abortion in general. Again, it was just my random rant. I’ll the first to concede that there are zealots on every side of the fence and that the issues are often presented in a false way by both sides.

    I think that the vast majority of abortions do amount to murder. If a woman aborts a fetus that had a fatal birth defect and she is making the choice between a short death for the fetus now and a slow painful one later I understand that. If a woman is addicted to drugs and doesn’t want give birth to a child that she knows is severel mentally damaged I understand. There are a myriad reasons that allow me to put myself in another womans shoes and understand why she would have an abortion. But the vast majority of times the reason is that she wasn’t using birth control and got pregnant. My focus is on those large number of unwanted pregnancies that could have been prevented. Not the woman that wanted her child and for whatever reason she cannot give birth to it.

    As for my friends that have had abortions they all know how I feel on the subject. In one post on my site I talked about one friend that was afraid to tell me that she had had an abortion because of how she thought I might react. I tell my friends that I may not like their decisions but they are the ones that will have to live with their actions for the rest of their lives, not me. I have a friend that told me how long it took her to get over her abortion and forgive herself. I had another tell me that she didn’t regret it, would do it again, and that she rarely thinks about it today. I know that there are women all over the spectrum who regret their abortions and others that think they were the best decisions they ever made.

    I personally think that abortion is more often than not the equivalent of murder and that I want to do everything that I can to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and help those women that may be suffering after their choices.

    I try to not speak on the morality of women that have had abortions because it was their body, their fetus, and ultimately their choice.

    I have an uncle that was a drug abuser and his drug use caused him to break into someones home to steal money to buy drugs. Apparently the people in the house woke up and my uncle ended up murdering a man. The fact that he is now in jail and is a murderer does not stop me from loving him. I know that what he did was wrong and his paying for his actions. The same thing goes for my friends. They have to live with their actions and not me. If they had murdered their mothers, fathers, or another person I wouldn’t feel sorry for them that the law sent them to prison. I would still love them and want the best for them in light of the fact that they would have to attone for what they had done. I wouldn’t feel bad about turning one of my friends in for murder and hoping that they would eventually find it in their hearts to forgive me. But as we all know, the law doesn’t consider abortion to be murder. It is a womans legal right to do as she pleases with her body and thus I have no right to try and run a guilt trip on my friends or any other woman.

    I don’t think calling abortion murder is sanctimonious because in my mind that is often what it is. They are killing something that barring intervention would be alive. There are situations that I make account for and reasons that I understand why the choice is made but again, the majority of abortions are because they got sloppy.

    I think that abortion is more of a last ditch effort at birth control. I don’t think women and men say,” why use condoms when we can just abort later.” I think that in the heat of the moment they think that this time will be the exception and karma won’t catch up to them or they are not thinking about it all. Thats what I thought. I read a statistic that half of all abortions are not the womans first and that many women already have kids who get abortions. These women are not getting pregnant because they don’t have access to contraception because if you have the resources to get an abortion you have the resources to buy condoms. They are getting pregnant, I believe, because there is an attitude of laziness towards contraception and a general attitude of laziness to towards responsible sexuality. One of my friends that had an abortion at 17 decided that after that she didn’t want kids for a long time. She has been on birth control ever since and hasn’t been pregnant. When I was being responsible I didn’t get pregnant. It was once I allowed myself to get sloppy that it caught up to me.

  45. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 6:41 pm

    Jody Tresidder said: SBWoman,
    Since when has “do as I say, not as I do” ever been effective advice? I’ve read your blog. The one thing that seems consistent is the contradicton between what you’ve practised and what you preach.

    Jody I do as I say. I haven’t dated in 15 months and have been just been raising my daughter and bettering myself. Why would I want my daughter to make the same decisions that I have made knowing what effort it takes to correct those mistakes? I make every effort to practice what I preach and the vast majority of times I succeed.

    I tell people to not do some of the things that I have done precisely because I have done them and know what the end effects will be.

    Would it make good sense for someone who has lost everything to drugs to encourage someone else to do drugs?

  46. Lucy Muff
    February 1st, 2006 @ 7:14 pm

    I has been had 5 abortions and can say for sure that smrtblkwoman is right: it not be fun at all. I now musts stop the sexing coz it was that what done it to me. Coz I is allergy to rubbers, and pope says no use. and they gives me clamidia I’s make too many mistakes when doin it. Now Jesus (jesus is lord) is helping me stay clean and not sexing it, and when I find man who is wanting for sex we’s will get marry and then can do it all times with blessing of his holiness. I agree with black lady completely and so what if she makes some mistake with typings. I do as well sometimes, but that no means thing. It what said that you means that then it is the important point.

  47. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 7:44 pm

    ROFLMAO @ Lucy Muff

    I’m sure this is an attempt to make fun of me but its funny all the same.

    lol@black lady

  48. Jody Tresidder
    February 1st, 2006 @ 8:17 pm

    Oh no, here comes Lucy “Troll” Muff doing her 99th bad impersonation of Slingblade-Susie!!

    With respect, SmarkBK, for a young, devoted fulltime single mother who intends to finish her nursing degree, enter the military, sort out important and so far unsatisfactory financial arrangements with a rotten AWOL former boyfriend via the third party of his employers, is currently bringing herself intellectually up to speed with a formidable philosophical, ethical and religious reading program – given in detail – as well as offering moral, sexual and marriage advice on her own regular blog, you certainly have an impressive amount of time left over for lively, defensive, highly selective point by point discussion here!

  49. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 8:39 pm

    @Jody Tresidder

    What can I say? I’m good at time management.

    ;)

  50. ProveIt
    February 1st, 2006 @ 9:45 pm

    I haven’t dated in 15 months and have been just been raising my daughter and bettering myself.

    Is this 15 months minus 9 months being pregnant, minus 4 months being chubby after giving birth (not to mention the suggested waiting period), leaving only a real lack of relationsip to be maybe 2 months?

    Okay, out with it you regular front pagers… who is Lucy Muff. Do I smell Tea brewing?

  51. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 12:06 am

    ////Is this 15 months minus 9 months being pregnant, minus 4 months being chubby after giving birth (not to mention the suggested waiting period), leaving only a real lack of relationsip to be maybe 2 months?////

    No, I’ve been single since about 4 months pregnant and my daughter is 10 months. All my baby fat was gone by my 6 week check-up, I just have no interest in dating anytime soon. Not enough time, energy, or patience.

  52. Julie
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 12:41 am

    SmartBlkWoman,

    Perhaps people would believe your arguments if you would use language that reflects intelligence. I understand that all dialects of English are equal in terms of ability to communicate. However, the obvious disregard you show for Standard English marks you as uneducated and/or illiterate. People will judge you on this basis alone, and those people will ignore your arguments because you sound stupid.

    To help you I will say it is customary to use Standard English (or a close approximation thereof) in written discourse. If you do this, others will give your arguments more weight simply because of the language you use.

    Though this may sound harsh or judgemental, it is advice with your obvious interest in having people listen to you in mind.

  53. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 12:54 am

    /////allonym said: You know, I recall watching a pro-life conference on C-SPAN a couple months ago, and this one woman was saying (and I paraphrase) “Those pro-abortionists are calling themselves ‘pro-choice’. But all they want to do is take choice away! They want to take away our choice to speak our mind about a practice (abortion) that we find abhorrent…” I couldn’t believe I had witnessed such a hypocritical, logic-defying idea being proferred, and to so gullible an audience (as evidenced by the ensuing applause).////

    Nothing was gullible about it. Many legal scholars feel that roe v wade was wrongly decided and should go back to the states on legal grounds.

    /////allonym said:What effect does it have on you if some woman a thousand miles away (or even next door) decides to end her pregnancy? Probably none, so why do you feel you have a right to force an interdiction? Oh yeah, I forgot that many of you claim to speak for all the little unborn children, the ones you’re likely to forget about the moment that umbilical cord is severed.////

    Not true. There are many anti-abortion people advocating sweeping changes in welfare reform, child support laws, child abuse laws, and trying to help single moms integrate back into society. Certain things are between two consenting adults but other issues concern society as a whole, even supposedly private issues. SCOTUS even said in the roe v wade decision, and I paraphrase that a womans right to an abortion is absolute in the first trimester but that in the second and third society itself has a greater interest in the womans personal choice.

    ////allonym said:Abortion, on the other hand, is easily argued to be more economically viable than the alternative since outlawing abortion would cause a rise in crime, increased medical liability, and a greater burden on the welfare system.////

    The financial aspect isn’t always the most important thing. Abortion concerns what kind of society we are going to be living in. Either one that values the lives of women, men, and children or one that says no ones worth is more than a few hundred bucks. Abortion is not an act that happens within a vacuum, it has widespread ramifications for what kind of society we are living in.

    /////PhalsePhrophet said: Why would a single mom who puts raising their child first join the military? That’s what many of the trifling men do to support their family and get away from that one night stand they’ve knocked up. They know the money will be there all the time and they won’t be there most of the time. Did she reject abortion only to pass off her child to others?/////

    I’ve thought a great deal about joining the military and its the best option. My step-dad is a Navy veteran, my brother was a Marine, and my dad was a Marine so I am fully aware of what I am getting into and the reasons why. My daugter is not being passed off on anyone else.

    ////Jody Tresidder said: …and if anyone else has glanced at the rest of SBW’s blog…it reads like sanctimonious Hallmark drivel spiced with comic hypocrisy – e.g. when God helps her to get rid of her anger towards the ne’er do well Marine who is her daughter’s father. Luckily, God waits to soothe SBW until AFTER she’s sent a blunt letter to the guy’s CO about the Marine’s refusal to take a paternity test. (It is SBW who draws attention to God’s small miracle of timing in this matter – not me)./////

    God never said let people piss on your leg and tell you its rain and I definately don’t believe in allowing someone to play you for “boo boo the new kind of fool”.

    ////tarkovsky said: I personally like SBW’s pitch. It is human, it is down-to-earth and real (unless a lot of philosophical b*sh*t posted left and right).////

    Thanks I was being sarcastic which I think alot of people missed.

    //////Now however we get (as a direct result?) Christina Aguilera and all sorts of T&A on MTV and whatnot. What’s the deal here? And now men go on the internet and get tons of free porn. What is women’s next move? I can’t wait to see in ten years, this is gonna be fun./////

    I believe its going to be a move back to tradition. I believe that a small segment of the feminist movement got control and basically went too damn far. Maybe I just grew up in too traditional of a household but I like men acting like men. Its as if men today are too afraid to be manly and women are afraid that their femininity will be construed as weakness. I am not saying that we need to go back to the good old days (as if there were some good old days) of being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and women snuck off to get their abortions in Mexico or the back alley. I am saying that perhaps feminism went too far with the “men are oppressors ideology” and the belief that more freedom ( or a lackadaisical attitude towards sex) is always necessarily better.

    ////So does this legitimate in any way the use of legislation/power to force men to change their attitudes? In other words, should we render abortion illegal to force men to change? Is that in fact the right way?………………Now tell me: how would *you* go about making men more responsible?////

    I think that more money needs to be allocated towards child support enforcement and the welfare system needs to seriously be revamped again. Sexual education needs to be more comprehensive and include more information on abortion (show them all the different types and how gruesome they are) and other forms of birth control that are easier to use and more effective such as IUDs and injections. Sex ed also needs to require that the parents get much more involved in teaching their children what types of values and morals they feel should govern sexuality. Too many kids are getting all their information from school and friends, what the hell happened to the parents role in all of this to teach their children to govern their sexuality?

    It has been so ingrained in the heads of many people thats its all about the women and her body that men are now seen as tertiary to the issue and what has it gotten us? Ever increasing deadbeat dads and men that feel like its all the responsibility of the women. Sadly women are buying into this.

    My personal contribution is that I want to become a nurse and get heavily involved in anti-abortion issues and I plan on contributing a portion of my income to causes ( not all of them abortion) when I begin to work again. I am more than willing to give my time and money to something I care about.

  54. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 1:04 am

    Julie said: However, the obvious disregard you show for Standard English marks you as uneducated and/or illiterate. People will judge you on this basis alone, and those people will ignore your arguments because you sound stupid.

    No they won’t. You replied to my statements didn’t you? If they don’t understand what I’m saying they don’t have to try to read it and they certainly don’t have to comment. I’m not looking for anyones approval. I know that this whole grammar thing is not really about grammar at all because there are other people that are not using correct English and yet no one has commented on it. Its not that they don’t like my grammar, its that they don’t like ME.

    It’s really just an attempt at having something to say while not having anything to say at all.

    To The English Teachers: If anyone here does not like my grammar please remember that you do not have to respond to me. I am well aware of your issue and I couldn’t care less.

    Thank you and have a goodnight.

  55. jay
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 6:32 am

    Responsibility is a 2 way street.
    But responsibility is a dying trait, look at how many people believe in a „god“.

    And no need to bring the, “institution” of marriage into it. Apparently you’re not aware of very high divorce rates.

    When in doubt: Suck it, don’t’ fuck it.

    I’m all for random sterilizations though.

  56. Doolali
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 9:22 am

    As Jahrta said, this is bullshit. No kid wants to be born only to be brought up by a mother who would have preferred to vacuum him – and that is the end of that. Let us now discuss what really matters: the issue of freedom of speech is threatened in Europe by Islamic rage over a cartoon (Comment 35)

  57. egelston
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 11:50 am

    I have no idea about the Marines, im Air Force. I do remember when I joined that a girl was denied because she was a single mom. But that was almost 5 years ago….

  58. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:01 pm

    /////egelston said: I have no idea about the Marines, im Air Force. I do remember when I joined that a girl was denied because she was a single mom. But that was almost 5 years ago….////

    She probably didn’t have anyone to keep her child. They make you give up custody, and that’s if they let you in like you said.

    ////jay said: But responsibility is a dying trait, look at how many people believe in a „god“.////

    Belief in God does not make one irresponsible. That a gross overgeneralization and you know it.

    ////I’m all for random sterilizations though. ////

    Why random? Wouldn’t it make more sense to sterilize the people having too many kids that they can’t afford?

  59. Lucy Muff
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:10 pm

    peoples against abortion ask you self this: would yous like to be dead? Most of kids what is alive wants to keep it that way. It be dumb to say ok we can kill kids as long as we is doing it before they come out of lady. this and sinning in mans bum by gaylords is most important thing that christ has been saying is wrong and should be changed. Even ifthe peoples don’t believe in Jesus (Jesus is Lord) they can still see how the way of christ is best way and most compassion is it. The black is just sayn it like what it is and thew ones what has been dissing her is full of sh*t and don’t even they has been read whats she done posted. I had friend what is genius level clever and has degree in accounting and everything. he says this: if you be wanting to eat meat then you should be willing to kill cow yourself, and if you be agree with abortion then you should be willingto kill baby kids you self as well.
    thimnks about it.

  60. Alfredo
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:16 pm

    So let’s get this straight:

    It’s immoral for a man to abandon a woman to take care of his progeny, but it’s moral for a woman to abandon her child to someone else so she can join the military?

  61. PhalsePhrophet
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:28 pm

    I don’t think SmartBlkWoman really knows the reality of it. Any single parent who joins the military and thinks they are going to be there everyday for their child is sadly mistaken or delusional. I come from an extensive military family and I can assure you that your child will be raised more than 50% by others if you last until retirement. If you do the minimum tour, that number goes to 75%-100%. It is not the place for single parents who want to be with and raise their kids. For the kid’s sake, stick to nursing.

  62. Lucy Muff
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:43 pm

    so whats? if black wants to serve cuntry in ,milatiry then you shold be grateful to her and give her respek for this not asccuse her of wrongdoing because she prefers not to murder her kid. This lady has said no to killing her baby and ywes to serwing her people by putting on uniform and then fool like alfredo try to diss her out. Alfredo is sauce not sense, he be to make no sense in at ALL. the fact thaT SHE can’t raise kid and sevre is proof that she is willing to do much for us all. I take off hat for this

  63. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:51 pm

    ////Alfredo said: It’s immoral for a man to abandon a woman to take care of his progeny, but it’s moral for a woman to abandon her child to someone else so she can join the military?///

    My daughter is not being abandoned.

    ////PhalsePhrophet said: I don’t think SmartBlkWoman really knows the reality of it. I come from an extensive military family and I can assure you that your child will be raised more than 50% by others if you last until retirement./////

    Your making alot of assumptions. I never said how long I was going to be in the military or what my long term plans are. I also have a family that has plenty of members who are either in the military currently or retired from the military. I am well aware of what I am getting myself into and I have a plan. My family members completely understand my goals and support me and my daughter in what I am trying to accomplish.

    My dad was a Marine, my step-dad retired from the Navy, my childs father is a Marine, my best friend was in the Army, I lived for a year near Camp Lejeune, NC ( the Marine base), I’ve dated Marines, I have a friend that has been a Marine for 18 years and my mentor is an officer in the USCG. Please do not presume to tell me what I do and do not know about joining the military and what I am getting myself into.

  64. Alfredo
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 4:41 pm

    > My daughter is not being abandoned.

    She isn’t? You’re leaving her in the care of others. Why do you have the right to do this, if it’s immoral for a man to do the same?

  65. PhalsePhrophet
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 6:05 pm

    I assume nothing SBK; I stated the long and the short-term reality (which you omitted from my quote) of your tour of duty. I don’t care if your entire family was in the military and you fucked the whole Army(or just 1 Marine), your child will be left mostly with others to be raised during your commitment. If any of these people tell you otherwise, they are lying to you.
    I’m sure you have a plan, and that plan is to leave your child with others while you go play soldier. That is fine, reject abortion and pass the kid off. Just seems a bit trifling.

  66. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 6:51 pm

    ////Alfredo said: > My daughter is not being abandoned.She isn’t? You’re leaving her in the care of others. Why do you have the right to do this, if it’s immoral for a man to do the same?////

    When people drop their kids off at the babysitter are they abandoning their kids? When soldiers go off to Iraq are they abandoning their kids? I repeat, my daughter is not being abandoned.

    ////PhalsePhrophet said: I’m sure you have a plan, and that plan is to leave your child with others while you go play soldier. That is fine, reject abortion and pass the kid off. Just seems a bit trifling.////

    Your opinion is duly noted and promptly discarded as nonsensical, ill-informed garbage. You have no idea of my situation and what I have worked out and it would be pointless for me to try to explain it to you because you don’t care and most importantly it’s none of your business.

  67. SmartBlkWoman
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 7:05 pm

    ////PhalsePhrophet said: I assume nothing SBK; I stated the long and the short-term reality (which you omitted from my quote) of your tour of duty./////

    I omitted it because it was made without any knowledge of my actual situation and thus it was worthless. You don’t know whether I’m joining the reserves or going on active duty. You don’t know which branch of the military I’m joining or anything concerning how my daughter will be taken care of. You basically don’t know anything and thus don’t have anything to base an opinion on.

    This is my last post on the military.

  68. Viole
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 8:10 pm

    ‘I am saying that perhaps feminism went too far with the “men are oppressors ideology” and the belief that more freedom ( or a lackadaisical attitude towards sex) is always necessarily better.’

    I find this especially ironic coming from a black woman. If you want to have someone take away your freedom, don’t let me stop you. But stay the hell away from mine. I like my freedom. I consider it essential.

    You’re right, though. Men never oppressed women, it was just the system. Just the like system enslaved black people.

    I don’t know what you call it when a certain group of people is treated as second-class, but I call it oppression… so yes, men did oppress women, and many women, such as yourself, aided them.

    Since we’re still not on equal footing, women are still being oppressed by some men, though some have figured out that we’re equal to them. If we don’t give up, eventually they’ll all figure it out.

  69. Alfredo
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 8:14 pm

    DullBlackWoman:

    Since subtlety is clearly lost on you, let me try and write this more slowly, in the hope that it aids your comprehension.

    You say that men are irresponsible when they choose to leave their progeny for others to raise.

    You, however, are choosing to leave your progeny for others to raise. You aren’t already a soldier leaving your child behind because you’ve been called up. You’re not dropping your child off at a babysitter. You’re a mother, choosing to give up custody of your child, for a career choice.

  70. godsarefake
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 11:02 pm

    SmartBlkWoman:

    Thanks for the excellent answer. I appreciate the time you spent on it. I also appreciate your attitude about good grammar — I, too, wonder what people get out of proving to me that they are at least as smart as my word processor. Anyway, I have, of course, more inquiries for you that I can’t see answers for around your website, or here.

    I wouldn’t feel bad about turning one of my friends in for murder and hoping that they would eventually find it in their hearts to forgive me. But as we all know, the law doesn’t consider abortion to be murder. and also I think that the vast majority of abortions do amount to murder….

    So, if abortion was illegal, like it once was, I think its clear you would definitely turn in your friends who confided in you about obtaining an illegal abortion, right? Would you also vote or promote society criminalizing abortions just like murder; does the punishment of murder (i.e. life in prison, death penalty, accessory to murder issues, etc.) , in a sense, fit the crime of abortion in your eyes?

    I would call my beliefs on abortion pro-choice/anti-abortion… but that doesn’t in and of itself mean that abortion in all cases should be illegal
    I love the fact that you see the basic fact that the two camps are not actually disagreeing in the broadest sense of the argument; i.e. that it is possible to be pro-choice and anti-abortion at the same time (that’s often how I describe myself as well). I am wondering if you are basically content to allow the current laws on abortion in the US rest as they are or are you for making abortion more stringently criminalized than it already is?

    You described abortion as: killing something that barring intervention would be alive.
    True. However, is it not “intervention” to decide to abstain from sex, and that barring that form of intervention, everyone’s eggs and sperm would also come together in the woman’s uterus and be something “alive” as well. However, I doubt you would say everyone should have procreative sex as often as physically possible, because to intervene by abstinence is merely another form of abortion. What is the “magic” that makes intervening in the making of humans a moral question for you? What is the difference, for example, between “medical abortion” intervention and “abstaining from sex” intervention? Is the point of conception so important to you? why?

  71. egelston
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 6:48 am

    PhalsePhrophet….post #61….I agree….I was married for almost 3 years….we spent a total of 7 months together during that time. I turned 19 in North Dakota, 20 in Georgia, 21 in Iraq, 22 in Iraq, 23 in Korea, and 24 and 25 is going to be in Germany. Ive been to Pakistan once, Iraq twice. SmartBlkWoman better have someone who LOVES her kid, or else your military career will not work. I dont know what branch your joining, but if its the Army (judging by your grammer i’m going to assume it is) then you need to look into another job.

  72. Lily
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 7:58 am

    egelston: the problem with snarking about someone’s grammar is that it leaves you open to criticism too. So, for instance, you made a very big one. Can you find it? No?

    Let me recast your sentence correctly for you:

    SmartBlkWoman better have someone who LOVES her kid, or else her military career will not work. …

    Let me know, if you don’t understand why the pronouns need to be consistent.

    Too bad you had to detract from an otherwise interesting post in order to pile on the pointless abuse of Jamila.

  73. jay
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 8:00 am

    Belief in God does not make one irresponsible. That a gross overgeneralization and you know it.

    Yes, it does. It makes excuses. Making excuses is not being responsible.
    So please, don’t tell me what I know.

    Why random? Wouldn’t it make more sense to sterilize the people having too many kids that they can’t afford?

    I was moreso being jestful. Being serious gets into a sticky situation (no pun intended) of who to sterilize. Not to say good kids don’t come out of big, poor families, so that’s tricky.
    We’re simply well passed being a responsible species (see above), be it our lives and how it effects and affects others, let alone our own bodies.
    The only hope now is a nice little extinction period. And religion will undoubtedly bring us there.

  74. hermesten
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 9:42 am

    Now Lily is insulting a man serving his country, gratiutiously, since nothing he said was addressed to her, nor was she party to any of the previous conversation.

    Sorry, but I don’t think we can tolerate an attack like this on our troops. All of us need to let those in Fatherland security know about Lily, and her subversive activities.

  75. Alfredo
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 10:31 am

    herm:

    The Ultimate Lobster has been informed of Lily’s fifth-column activities against one of our patriotic troops.

    Why does Lily hate America so much?

  76. Lily
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 10:54 am

    Yawn.

  77. twyg
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 11:30 am

    holy moly! isa sho nuff gotsta gree wiff the muffster! alfredo IS sauce and jesus was a gaylord! i dun tole all of you dat right.

  78. PhalsePhrophet
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 1:34 pm

    SBW said “This is my last post on the military.” That’s one subject down on which you appear to be disillusioned and or know nothing about, now let’s see if we can get you to do the same on the other topics (religion & abortion) as you seem to know even less about them.

  79. Lucy Muff
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 3:45 pm

    twyg can shuts his fat mouth becvause Jesus is LORD, not gaylord. The only raisen you like to talk of gaylord is maybe because you is gaylord youself? maybe time for you to think about that. While you do it be also good idea for you to ask for forgiveness.

    and I likes how everyone is being rude to black’s spellings but then when lily point out bad writings everyone say she hate America! That stupidness is too large and prove that lily be treated with no fairness here, because you afraid to hear good news. It don’t matter coz you will not stop Jesus (Lord) from enter your heart, one way or other.

  80. SmartBlkWoman
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 4:58 pm

    Lily,

    I’ve alredy figured out that some of these people have to be ignored. Who gives unasked for career advice out over the internet to people that they don’t even know? Some of these people are so presumptuous it’s not even funny. I’ve said numerous times that this whole “she isn’t using correct English” thing has nothing to do with grammar and everything to do with having nothing of value to say but still wanting to say something.

    ///hermesten said: Now Lily is insulting a man serving his country, gratiutiously, since nothing he said was addressed to her, nor was she party to any of the previous conversation.///

    And now here hermensten is doing the same thing he was talking about somebody else for doing. You can’t make this stuff up.

    ////jay said: Yes, it does. It makes excuses. Making excuses is not being responsible. So please, don’t tell me what I know.///

    I’m correct in telling you that you don’t know this. Religion does not make one irresponsible anymore than atheism makes someone a self-righteous a-hole.

    ////Viole said: ‘I am saying that perhaps feminism went too far with the “men are oppressors ideology” and the belief that more freedom ( or a lackadaisical attitude towards sex) is always necessarily better.’

    I find this especially ironic coming from a black woman. If you want to have someone take away your freedom, don’t let me stop you. But stay the hell away from mine. I like my freedom. I consider it essential.////

    I forgot black people are a monolithic group that all feel the same way about everything.

    ////Viole said I don’t know what you call it when a certain group of people is treated as second-class, but I call it oppression… so yes, men did oppress women, and many women, such as yourself, aided them./////

    I aided the oppression of women at a time when I wasn’t even born? That’s a novel theory.

  81. jahrta
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 5:02 pm

    Lucy, did you let jeebus into your heart, or were you being especially naughty and allow him into your ass instead? did jeebus unload his holiness deep inside you?

    *I think I hear Choobus off in the corner, preparing a statement…*

  82. Lily
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 5:44 pm

    SmartBlkWoman:

    LOL! I am proud to have you on my side. Man, you are giving as good as you get and you are not even a seasoned combat vet yet! This bodes well for the future.

    Don’t mind the twin doofi in 73 and 74. # 73 is angry because I have trounced him one too many times in discussions. He finally got hysterical and vulgar, so I had to cast him into the outer darkness. But really, it was for his own good. At his age, his heart can’t stand that much excitement or anger. So I don’t talk to him anymore.

    #74 is an especially fun case. Poor old Jim developed this peculiar cyber crush on me but at the same time he hated/hates me. He would fall into foaming rages over the weirdest little things.

    I think, his family must have done an intervention and sent him to a rest home because he disappeared for a couple of months (I actually haven’t been counting, so I am not sure how long he disappeared and possibly he only went to the forums– but I stay out of there for the most part.) Now he has reappeared as Alfredo and is as angry as ever. Go figure.

    Viole! Now there is an interesting case. Viole is smart, has a mouth on her, and an attitude to match that often has me in stitches. I just wish she walked with us in the path of the angels. Man, what she could accomplish in reducing the unholy trinity (73, 74 and Choobus) to quivering, molten slime on the sidewalk of life… Ah wouldn’t it be luverly??

    Choobus is the resident clown and dork. He is 6 parts pervert, 2 parts village idiot and 2 parts crank. At least that is the persona he cultivates here. I am rather of the opinion that in real life he is a loving, if hen-pecked husband, devoted father of two wildly, ill-behaved children and all around pillar of the community. I suspect that is why I have become rather fond of him, against all sense or reason.

    So between your own observations and my experience with 4 special characters, you are in good shape, if you want to stick around, as I hope you will.

  83. hermesten
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 6:35 pm

    Viole is on the path of angels. Lily, you’re the one on the road to Hell, with your Furher-love.

    As far as Choobus goes, he has probably s h i t smarter turds than you. And they’re certainly morally superior, since, just being turds, they don’t support crushing the testicles of little boys to satisfy the power lust of a bunch of corrupt, draft-dodging, chickenhawk, ex-frat boys.

    Finally, you’ve let your misty-eyed adoration for all things Chimp lead you rhetorically astray. When he said you have to keep repeating yourself in order to “catapult the propaganda,” he was refering to how Karl Rove told him to address his Christian base. Certainly, you have trounced here, and often, but the only thing you’ve trounced is the presumption, once granted, if ever so briefly, that you have moral limits that supercede your loyalty to the tribe. Your road to Hell isn’t even paved with good intentions.

  84. Choobus
    February 3rd, 2006 @ 7:12 pm

    Lily lily, it’s not surprising that you choose to align yourself with the second most demented person here. Between you and dullblackmoron you might (and I stress might) be able to take on Lucy Muff in a battle of wits, but it would be a close thing. Maybe your chances would be improved if one of you kneels down behind poor old Lucy and then other can then push her over. Then you can steal her dictionary and call it a victory!

  85. Viole
    February 4th, 2006 @ 12:21 am

    Viole! Now there is an interesting case. Viole is smart, has a mouth on her, and an attitude to match that often has me in stitches. I just wish she walked with us in the path of the angels. Man, what she could accomplish in reducing the unholy trinity (73, 74 and Choobus) to quivering, molten slime on the sidewalk of life… Ah wouldn’t it be luverly??

    Oh, Lily, you sure know how to flatter a gal. If a few of my prior boyfriends had flattered my intellect rather than my face, I might still consider myself a heterosexual. It’s too late for me now, though. Still, if you keep going like that… are you sure you don’t want that date?

    SmartBlkWoman:

    Respond to the points, not the straw men. Even the worst of us can burn them by the thousands, and I’m sure you’re capable of better.

  86. Jospeh
    February 6th, 2006 @ 3:05 am

    Abortion is a wedge issue. You mention welfare. You mention child support. You mention sexual education. The elephant in the room is that abortion is being used by huge and powerful corporate and political interests CYNICALLY to divide this country and drum up support and money for their side. They are not doing this because of beliefs, morals, or idealogy. They are doing it so they can WIN, so they can STEAL, and so they can GAIN POWER. I’m not saying that everyone on the conservative side is this way – but it’s quite obvious to anyone who does some reasonable research on the internet that the people reaping the benefits of the conservative movement don’t have any moral conviction beyond the almighty dollar. The people who rode this issue into office are not going to fund or support welfare, child support, or sexual education. Also, Hell will freeze over before they spend money on veteran’s benefits, body armor for the troops, social security, medicaid, or disaster relief. They are also quite pleased to give gigantic tax relief to their corporate buddies that really don’t need them. I respect the idealogical convictions of those who are pro-life, and I’m certainly willing to hear them out, but it’s very difficult to seperate them from the thugs, criminals, and dictators they are standing with. You’ll have to do this yourself before I can take you seriously.

  87. hermesten
    February 6th, 2006 @ 10:02 am

    “I’m not saying that everyone on the conservative side is this way…”

    Joseph, I think we’re already to the point where it doesn’t matter. There is abundant public information to illuminate the path we’re on and the kind of people who are taking us down that path. We’re well beyond the point where any intelligent and even remotely informed person, can credibly claim not to know what they are facilitating. This isn’t Germany, 1930. We’ve already witnessed Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Stalin, Franco, Mao, and Pol Pot. The historical analogies are fresh, abundant, and well documented. Anyone still supporting the Chimp and his gang of thugs and criminals is already on the wrong side of history.

  88. SmartBlkWoman
    February 6th, 2006 @ 12:30 pm

    Viole said: Respond to the points, not the straw men. Even the worst of us can burn them by the thousands, and I’m sure you’re capable of better.

    There weren’t too many intelligent points to respond to.

    I don’t respond to people who do nothing but spew vulgarities and I don’t respond to people that are just being sarcastic. These two categories limited my response to about 5% of the posters.

  89. Viole
    February 6th, 2006 @ 1:24 pm

    Sarcastic? Sometimes. Apparently, though, you’re too ‘smart’ to make out my points. I guess I’ll state them more clearly, and a bit more sarcastically.

    First point: it is always better to have a choice, than to have a choice made for you. I’ve spoken to many theists who make this out as the reason why god gave us free will. It is better to make a wrong choice and learn from it, than to have a choice made for you and learn nothing.

    Second point: somewhere around a hundred thousand, or six if you’re a creationist, years of men dominating women can be legitimately defined as oppression. There are certainly exceptions. There are also women who supported their own oppression.

    An entirely new point: profanity is just a series of noises we’ve decided are impolite. Some people don’t care about politeness; I just prefer to express myself in other ways. Just because you don’t like how they’re making them doesn’t mean there aren’t valid points to be addressed.

  90. Alfredo
    February 6th, 2006 @ 2:25 pm

    It’s always cute when Lily goes after me for using a different name here, given that she’s changed her name (and listed email address) more times than Chimpie has changed justifications for the war on Iraq.

    And Lily: don’t think I’ve given up my crush on you at all. I still have a feeling you’d be great in the sack.

  91. Jospeh
    February 6th, 2006 @ 2:55 pm

    hermesten,
    I think there are some educated people that are still out of the loop. It’s just the nature of our laconic society. We are in a transitional period where television news is becoming more and more nothing but propaganda and corporate interest dog shows. People who want to know the truth look it up and check it themselves on the internet, and not everyone is doing that yet. I’m not talking about the many many people who have been mentally poisoned by the swill that Limbaugh, Coulture, O’rielly, etc. are spewing out – those people are long gone down the hole of Fascism. I don’t know if we’ll ever get them back. But if we ARE going to stop the giant machine that is shredding the constitution, we need to reach out to those that aren’t paying attention and make them aware. I think smartblkwoman could be one of these.

  92. Lily
    February 6th, 2006 @ 3:08 pm

    Alfredo! How I revel in my power over you. You might have had a fighting chance, if you had adopted a name like, say, Ulrich, or Antonio but Alfredo? That is the name of a fattening, pasty white sauce. Plain off-putting.

    I might reconsider if you go beat up Hermesten. I am pretty sure you can take a skinny, old dude.

  93. Choobus
    February 6th, 2006 @ 3:46 pm

    Lily,
    am I to understand that you are offering yourself (in the biblical sense) in exchange for violence against those who disagree with you? That seems unethical in so many ways that I don’t know whether I ought to bust a nut in your face of congratulate you for finally having the balls to show your true colours.

    I’m sure that you don’t find a face full of Alfredo sauce that off putting.

  94. hermesten
    February 6th, 2006 @ 4:47 pm

    Come on Choobus, Lily already revealed her profession, she’s just now revealing her price.

    Anyway, I may be old and skinny, but I’m also probably better armed, and almost certainly, better trained, than anyone posting here, even the Bible Beaters (excepting perhaps some special forces people, if there are any posting here). Plus, not only am I normally “strapped,” I’m often in the company of others who are “strapped” as well, and even better trained than I am.

    Anyone confusing my anti-war stance with “pacifism,” and acting on this basis, will be very rudely, and perhaps even savagely, awakened. In accordance with libertarian doctrine, I never “initiate” force, but once force is intiated against me, I respond with all means at my disposal.

  95. Lily
    February 6th, 2006 @ 5:08 pm

    Alfredo, I don’t want to put you in danger. I’m not sure what force hermy has at his disposal, beyond his wife, but there is no sense in taking chances for very little reward.

  96. Choobus
    February 6th, 2006 @ 6:18 pm

    taking chances for very little reward:

    that sounds like a way to describe becoming a christian.

  97. SBW
    February 6th, 2006 @ 7:10 pm

    //////First point: it is always better to have a choice, than to have a choice made for you. I’ve spoken to many theists who make this out as the reason why god gave us free will. It is better to make a wrong choice and learn from it, than to have a choice made for you and learn nothing.////////

    As I have already stated, but of course you didn’t bother to read it, that you should not be allowed all choices all the time. Free will or no free will. Every country has laws and every household has rules because being able to do what you want to do is not always a good thing.

    //////Second point: somewhere around a hundred thousand, or six if you’re a creationist, years of men dominating women can be legitimately defined as oppression. There are certainly exceptions. There are also women who supported their own oppression.///////

    A woman who is considered a “traditionalist” or “conservative” is not the same thing as being a co-conspirator in the oppression of women. Are there women who cooperated in oppressing other women? Of course. However just because a woman disagrees with the most vocal feminists or is anti-abortion does not make her any less of a feminist.

    ////////An entirely new point: profanity is just a series of noises we’ve decided are impolite. Some people don’t care about politeness; I just prefer to express myself in other ways. Just because you don’t like how they’re making them doesn’t mean there aren’t valid points to be addressed.///////

    Excessive profanity is the calling out of a small minded person for attention. I’m not above throwing a well chosen curse word into my conversation here and there for a dramatic flair or to stress my points but if the profanity adds nothing to the dialogue then it is a desperate cry for attention. Of course those individuals who have nothing of value to say but like attention and/or lack the ability to express themselves will continue to use vulgarities are their main form of communication.

  98. Choobus
    February 6th, 2006 @ 7:38 pm

    cunt

  99. hermesten
    February 6th, 2006 @ 9:47 pm

    “Excessive profanity is the calling out of a small minded person for attention. I’m not above throwing a well chosen curse word into my conversation here and there for a dramatic flair or to stress my points but if the profanity adds nothing to the dialogue then it is a desperate cry for attention.”

    Yeah, how does it go? Anyone driving slower than you on the highway is a moron, and anyone driving faster is an idiot. So when you use profanity it’s “a well chosen curse word for dramatic flair.” When someone else uses it, they’re “small minded people crying out desperately for attention.”

    Got it.

  100. hermesten
    February 6th, 2006 @ 9:50 pm

    Well Lily, you know what the Chimp said when he was dodging the Vietnam draft: “discretion is the better part of valor.”

  101. Viole
    February 6th, 2006 @ 10:51 pm

    Okay, this thread is going to die soon, so I don’t know why I’m bothering, but…

    “As I have already stated, but of course you didn’t bother to read it, that you should not be allowed all choices all the time. Free will or no free will. Every country has laws and every household has rules because being able to do what you want to do is not always a good thing.”

    Household rules, and many of society’s rules, are intended to keep people from accidentally killing themselves, physically injuring themselves, or ‘messing up their lives’ in other, poorly defined ways. Laws are generally intended to keep societies full of selfish people functioning properly.

    “A woman who is considered a “traditionalist” or “conservative” is not the same thing as being a co-conspirator in the oppression of women. Are there women who cooperated in oppressing other women? Of course. However just because a woman disagrees with the most vocal feminists or is anti-abortion does not make her any less of a feminist.”

    Feminists don’t all speak with one voice. Oddly enough, however, the feminist who suggests that women should go back to the kitchen where they belong is not a feminist at all.

    “Excessive profanity is the calling out of a small minded person for attention. I’m not above throwing a well chosen curse word into my conversation here and there for a dramatic flair or to stress my points but if the profanity adds nothing to the dialogue then it is a desperate cry for attention. Of course those individuals who have nothing of value to say but like attention and/or lack the ability to express themselves will continue to use vulgarities are their main form of communication.”

    What Herm said.

    Or, in the immortal words of the Vice President, “Go fuck yourself.”

  102. SBW
    February 6th, 2006 @ 11:18 pm

    ///////hermesten said:Yeah, how does it go? Anyone driving slower than you on the highway is a moron, and anyone driving faster is an idiot. So when you use profanity it’s “a well chosen curse word for dramatic flair.” When someone else uses it, they’re “small minded people crying out desperately for attention.”

    Got it.//////

    Some people never “get it”. Sadly, you might be one of them.

    /////Viole said: Feminists don’t all speak with one voice. Oddly enough, however, the feminist who suggests that women should go back to the kitchen where they belong is not a feminist at all.////

    I think we might have finally reached a conclusion we both agree on.

    ////Viole said:What Herm said.

    Or, in the immortal words of the Vice President, “Go fuck yourself.”////

    Viole you are placing yourself in the camp of Dick Cheney and hermesten, are you sure that this is the company you want to keep? I had such high hopes for you.

  103. jahrta
    February 7th, 2006 @ 9:41 am

    I think Herm would sooner subject himself to a 24 hour long continuous loop of a fanta commercial than be “placed in the camp of dick cheney.”

  104. Viole
    February 7th, 2006 @ 10:31 am

    “I think we might have finally reached a conclusion we both agree on.”

    Then stop pining for the good old days. It makes you sound like a member of concerned women for America.

    “Viole you are placing yourself in the camp of Dick Cheney and hermesten, are you sure that this is the company you want to keep? I had such high hopes for you.”

    You must have replied to this before you read my response to you on the cartoon thread. Anyway. Herm, yes. He’s a good guy. Dick Cheney–look, Jamila, I don’t suck the blood out of little children, or casually order the death of thousands. Occasionally telling someone to fuck themselves hardly puts me in the same ‘company’ as him.

  105. hermesten
    February 8th, 2006 @ 2:57 pm

    I guess we could use the latest Chimpco construction. It goes like this: Hamas acquired power legally, and Hitler acquired power legally, so Hamas members are Nazi’s, and like Hitler.

    So, why pick on Cheney? Not only does the Chimp say fuck you all the time, there are video’s of him flipping the finger. Why stop there? I had a German Shepard, Hitler had a German Shepard, therefore by Lily logic (ask SBW logic), I must be like Hitler.

  • Basic Assumptions

    First, there is a God.

    Continue Reading...

  • Search

  • Quote of the Day

    • Fifty Random Links

      See them all on the links page.

      • No Blogroll Links