The Raving Theist

Dedicated to Jesus Christ, Now and Forever

Pie, Anyone?

January 25, 2006 | 26 Comments

“Little baby poop is appropriate conversation to discuss with anyone who will listen, grown folk crap is nasty!” observes SmarkBlkWoman. She’s right. Dinner-table chat about Pampers and potty-training is cute –but start talking about the last steaming slab of feces left behind by your spouse, or the foot-long bowel movement you saw clogging the toilet at McDonald’s, and suddenly nobody wants dessert.

With religion it’s no different. Little Mary at the bedside saying her prayers for mommy and daddy and Spot is adorable. And only the crankiest spoil-sport atheist could object to a class of kindergartners mouthing the words “under God.” But see what happens at a cocktail party if you begin proclaiming some grown-up dogma, like blasphemers boiling in the Blood of the Lamb. You’ll find that the usual “respect” for faith will be replaced by a toothpick to your eye.

Comments

26 Responses to “Pie, Anyone?”

  1. The No God Boy
    January 25th, 2006 @ 2:36 pm

    I find any discusssion of religion offensive. Why the hell should a child be allowed to kneel beside a bed and invite an invisible man into my house.

    Wait till you have you own house before letting the murderers in.

    D

  2. jahrta
    January 25th, 2006 @ 2:41 pm

    Well, what I personally find offensive about all of this is that we’re supposed to believe that this woman is at the point where she is simply “considering becoming a christian” when her site has scripture quotes on it and a blog titled “god requires more than your prayer.” I guess the time for consideration has passed (and she’s really quick at updating her site) and the time for mindless subjugation has begun. I only hope her child can escape the idiocy that is religion.

  3. The No God Boy
    January 25th, 2006 @ 3:08 pm

    Well, that GAWD stuff takes over fast – kinda like meningitus. One day you are fine and the next, POW, you are doubled over at an alter, mumbling scriptures and “forgive me’s” and dumping all of your money into a plate.

  4. Graham
    January 25th, 2006 @ 4:30 pm

    Seriously though, my wife and I are both atheists, and yet my 8 year old is a mini-christian! What’s up with that??? Oh yeah…now I remember….we made the mistake of sending him to a PUBLIC SCHOOL IN ALABAMA.

  5. jahrta
    January 25th, 2006 @ 4:52 pm

    I can’t even fathom how much that would aggravate me, Graham. What are you and your wife thinking of doing about it, if anything?

    I’ve often said I’d let my kids come to their own conclusions regarding religion, but when I said that in the past I was talking about what I or my wife would say to them about religion/god – never paused to consider that outside influences could make a child into a theist even if s/he was growing up in a household wherein both parents were atheists. I suppose it makes sense, though – after all, a child spends far more time in school during their waking hours than at home in the pressence of his/her parents.

    I suppose you could always sue the school for brainwashing/child abuse/libel(original sin-going to hell unless you accept jeebus), etc etc etc

  6. SmartBlkWoman
    January 25th, 2006 @ 5:55 pm

    jahrta said: I guess the time for consideration has passed (and she’s really quick at updating her site) and the time for mindless subjugation has begun. I only hope her child can escape the idiocy that is religion.

    Don’t guess. So far your estimations of things seem pretty baseless to me. My site also says that I do not call myself a Christian. I believe that the bible has value regardless of whether or not you are a Christian as both a historical document and including the fact that many of its sayings are just good old tried and proven common sense.

    And since your raising your child to come up with her own beliefs will you call him/her an idiot if they do not become an atheist? Think about that. Remember children are reflections of their parents.

    Furthermore, what often surprises me about many atheists is that they say that they are going to let their children make up their minds about religion (nothing wrong with that, don’t get me wrong). Let’s be honest. If you really believe that there is no god, why wouldn’t you just teach your child that? If you believe that there is no afterlife, that all the belief in god is a sign of mental inferiority, why not teach your child that if you believe it to be so true?

    I would also like to say that I am a complete supporter of separation of church and state. I don’t want the government telling my child crap about religion and I don’t want any religion gaining any sort of control over public education. I’m actually considering home schooling my daughter because I believe that many of the public schools in this country are garbage as exemplified by the fact that about 30% don’t graduate from high school and American students typically test much lower than students in other countries.

    Concerning “under God” in the pledge of allegiance, I wouldn’t care if it was taken out.

  7. Choobus
    January 25th, 2006 @ 6:34 pm

    smrtblkLIAR

    why do you deny being a jeezuz loving godidiot? It’s pretty obvious from your (or is it you’re????) website that you are a fully fledged Christ merchant. Why deny it? Does some part of your mind realize that Christianity is just one arbitrary floater in the cess pool of human deception, or are you just too gutless to say what you really believe?

  8. SmartBlkWoman
    January 25th, 2006 @ 7:29 pm

    The hit dog always hollers.

    This will be my last time throwing peanuts to the peanut gallery.

    Choo-bullshit, either back up what you are saying with fact or stop attempting to engage in intelligent conversation. If you can’t do either, please do not address me again.

  9. Nokot
    January 25th, 2006 @ 7:51 pm

    Sigh, I don’t know why Choobus and jahrta can’t play nice. I admire your restraint SmartBlkWoman.

  10. Mort Coyle
    January 25th, 2006 @ 9:31 pm

    It has always struck me as ludicrous that religion and politics are so often considered “off limits” in social conversation, considering that they deal with perhaps the two most important aspects governing how we live our lives. It’s sad that so many in our culture can’t cordially disagree on a subject and discuss their viewpoints without becoming offended and angry and descending into argumentum ad hominem.

  11. Graham
    January 25th, 2006 @ 10:02 pm

    Jahrta, I’m afraid there’s not much use in trying to sue the school. Remember, I’d have to file suite in Alabama itself, and there’s not a judge there that would side with me.

    Also, he picked up the Jesus Juice from daycare/friends/relatives/etc…so I honestly can’t blame just the school anyway (although they did cross the line several times).

    And SmartBlkWoman is right in that it’s much harder to actually let your child carry on with a different religious perspective that you. It was real easy to say “I’ll let him make up his own mind” but if he believes in something that I think is just patently stupid (like flying dragons, magical unicorns, or a chick who got pregnant without doing the bumpity bump) then it’s hard to resist the urge to “set him straight”.

    Of course, it’s easier being an atheist parent with a religious child than the other way around. Right now, I just think he’s wasting his time with this Jesus nonsense, but if I was the x-tian and he was the atheist, then I’d be worried for his immortal soul and all that stuff. That’s got to be a bigger burden than what I’m dealing with.

  12. Choobus
    January 25th, 2006 @ 10:17 pm

    I fail to see why I am required to “play nice” with pseudo Christians who choose to post meaningless gibberish on an atheist website. If goofyblkwoman would refrain from talking about evolution (of which she clearly knows nothing beyond creationist-generated nonsense) that would perhaps be worthy of admiration. As it is, she has revealed herself to be something of a fool, although it is somewhat redundent since her own website does a fine job of that. Godidiots don’t deserve automatic respect. The decent ones (such as Steve G) at least make sense and can engage in real conversation. When they come a-preachin they are asking to be shown certain truths, and for the most part they do not like it. Big fucking surprise. Jahrta has, in my opinion, been lucid and direct but the response to his salient points was nothing more than a reiteration of the same initial bullshit, showing no evidence of having read what he said at all. Thus, I submit that Jahrta is the one deserving respect for showing restraint.

  13. Viole
    January 25th, 2006 @ 11:34 pm

    You aren’t required to play nice, Choob. RA only deletes comments to make satirical points, and he puts them back later. He never bans people, either.

  14. godsarefake
    January 26th, 2006 @ 12:02 am

    Mort Coyle said :

    It has always struck me as ludicrous that religion and politics are so often considered “off limits” in social conversation…It’s sad that so many in our culture can’t cordially disagree on a subject and discuss their viewpoints without becoming offended and angry and descending into argumentum ad hominem.

    Here Here…and this creates an atmosphere where our armored barriers are up so often, we default to defending the fort even when we should be opening the door. I site the SmartBlkWoman discussion from a couple days ago, as an example.

  15. jay
    January 26th, 2006 @ 6:08 am

    Ah, poop.
    “The daily defecation session is daily proof of the unacceptability of Creation.”
    -Milan Kundera, _The Unbearable Lightness of Being_

  16. simbol
    January 28th, 2006 @ 2:02 pm

    graham

    I think you have raised a very interesting point. I don’t believe in “open mind” when children are at stake. The open mind of a child can be quickly filled with garbage. On the other hand, atheist parents have a hard life because they don’t want their chidren to be isolated, singled out,or attacked for being atheists, which as we well know is a very unpopular religious position. What I do is not speaking about “churches” with my 12 years kid. I only tell him, that, for the time being, we belong to a catholic TRADITION. He has never asked me what does this mean (I think he is more interested in new developments in Play Station, which for me is right). At the same time I’m trying to put two cops a the door of his mind: 1)Skepticism and laugh about a general matter called “religion” (e.g. At some point of history all religions believed that earth was flat-tortoises tale included)and, 2) put before him some problems that religions have with logic and science like the fact that King Kong is part of our “family”, a fact some religions don’t like. Frankly, may be this can be confusing for him, but a I have no better recipe.

  17. europhile
    January 29th, 2006 @ 1:28 pm

    Why don’t you all stop wasting your time feeling frustrated at being a non-believing minority and all just emmigrate to Europe, where no one understands the concept of creationism but would consider it some sort of bizarre joke if they did: where the average number of people attending a church service is three 90 year-old women and a couple of Japanese tourists; where the bible is only picked up by Da Vinci code readers who are trying to figure out who Mary Magdalene was?

  18. simbol
    January 29th, 2006 @ 6:39 pm

    Who told you I feel frustrated at being a minority? All my life I have belonged to minorities.

  19. Jahrta
    January 30th, 2006 @ 9:57 am

    So let me ask you all – were the rest of you unable to post anything to this site for the last few days also, or was it just me? :)

    I’d like to clear up a point or two that I made earlier regarding child rearing and atheism. First of all, I don’t currently have any children, although my wife and I are trying. She grew up in a moderately relaxed christian household, although her individual beliefs sway more toward far-eastern concepts such as reincarnation. She considers herself a spiritual (although far from religious) individual who embraces me for who I am, atheism and all. I think the very first question I asked her when we were dating was “would you ever consider being with an atheist for the long haul” (no, i’m not a freaky social-impaired stalker, but rather, someone who had just ended a two-year relationship with a cute but deranged godidiot, who left me because I couldn’t swallow her fairy tale bullshit any longer). The only reason I don’t come out and say “i’m going to teach my child to be an atheist” is that, quite frankly, my wife is NOT an atheist, and as such that would be disrespectful to her in that she has mentioned several times that she wants us both to tell our children what we believe, but that that themselves can chose their own path. I personally feel that if i arm my children with the weapons of logic and curiosity, that they will find the path to atheism or agnosticism on their own. I would not refrain from forcing my worldview upon my children out of shame for my own position (i’m rather proud to be an atheist/secular humanist), but rather out of respect and trust. The world can be a scary place at times, Jamila, but I would never homeschool my kids (for several reasons). All of the homeschooled kids I’ve ever met are HORRIBLY inept socially and it takes them years of living amongst their peers to catch up. If you don’t approve of the ideological teachings they’re receiving in their public schools, then you have several options: you can call a meeting of the PTA and air your grievances there; you can talk to your daughter every night and just be a part of her life in general so that your views are expressed and given equal time with whatever else she’s picking up on her own; or you can bite the bullet and send her to a private school, but most of those are overtly religious by nature (so if you’re undecided about your religious perspectives, they’ll be all too glad to decide for her).

    I may have been the first to start name-calling, but maybe we can just move on and continue with a serious debate, assuming you’re still interested in having one?

  20. jahrta
    January 30th, 2006 @ 10:01 am

    Oh, and jamila, I never said your daughter would be an idiot if she became religious. What I said was that religion itself was idiotic. Children have very little choice in what they believe because all too often it is spoon-fed to them (for better or worse) by their parents.

    I can remember being in second grade and the teacher had the kids do a mock vote for the presidential candidates. I can’t fathom what she thought she’d accomplish by asking a bunch of seven year olds who they’d vote for, other than to get a head count for how many republican households there were in relation to democrat households. I was one of only three democrat votes (followed by a lord-of-the-flies victory roar on the part of the seven year old republican kiddies – kind of scary, really).

  21. SmartBlkWoman
    January 30th, 2006 @ 3:50 pm

    Jahrta said: So let me ask you all – were the rest of you unable to post anything to this site for the last few days also, or was it just me? :)

    I had some trouble posting too, but then my posts all popped up at the same time so I guess the bugs have been worked out.

    //////I may have been the first to start name-calling, but maybe we can just move on and continue with a serious debate, assuming you’re still interested in having one?/////

    Yep, you called me a godidiot. Is this an atheist apology? lol. But thats cool, RA told me what I would be in for and I had visited the site before so I pretty much knew that I wouldn’t be receiving a warm hug of appreciation. We can just move on from here.

    There are so many reasons I have for wanting to homeschool my daughter I almost don’t know where to begin. My own experiences in public schools were often less than pleasant and I went to a few really excellent schools and some shabby ones too. I once had a teacher tell me that black people have changed their names so many times ( negro, black, african american), that he wouldn’t be surprised if blacks came up with something new to call themselves in another 20 years or so. This was told to a room full of pre-teens. I had another teacher tell a room full of students that black people had stolen the idea of lighting candles at Kwanzaa from Jewish people. I had another teacher, who upon hearing a student remark that he wanted to apply to an ivy league school, say that “kids from this school don’t go to colleges like that”. I went to a high school that had security guards walking through the halls. I have too many negative experiences with public schools to name. There were some good ones too, but the bad far outweighed the good. Many of my teachers treated us like we were just paychecks and a way to send their own kids to private school or public schools elsewhere. And I know that I’m not alone because I have heard so many other horror stories from friends about their schools.

    The American public educational system is so far behind many other countries in the world that don’t even start sending their kids to school until years after us. Fantasia Barrino, the American idol girl, managed to make it to a sophomore in high school without being able to read. She can’t even read her daughter a bedtime story.

    I know that socialization might be a problem but I have a cousin that homeschooled her kids and they had turned out to be really intelligent and social. One of whom eventually went to Harvard. She only homeschooled them to until they were about 14 and then they went to public high school.

    I’m open to my baby going to a really excellent public school and I will just give her extra reading materials at home and doing outside work with her, if thats not possible then a private school isn’t out of the question with me also giving supplimentary material at home but thats only if I’m able to affort it. If I can’t give her either of the two latter options then homeschool it is for me. I’d rather give up alot of my money and time to make sure that my daughter gets the best education I can give her without the drawbacks of public schools. For me the tradeoff would be worth it if I could save her from some of the garbage that I picke up in public schools.

    ////Children have very little choice in what they believe because all too often it is spoon-fed to them (for better or worse) by their parents./////

    My dad taught me alot of info at home that I wasn’t getting schools and gave me books to read all the time. He didn’t celebrate Christmas and so I always got books for gifts whether it was my birthday or any other gift giving occasion. My dad talked to me about what I learned in school and really challenged my thinking on things that he didn’t consider to be right or felt that I needed to think about some more before I came to a conclusion. I know I’ll be the same way with my own little girl. Don’t worry, I am not raising another godidiot to add to the world.

  22. jahrta
    January 31st, 2006 @ 1:29 pm

    Sounds like you had a good dad, even if he wasn’t too big on toys. As far as the racist, defeatist and woefully inequipped public schools in your area are concerned, would it be beyond the realm of possibility to consider moving to a better school district?

  23. SmartBlkWoman
    January 31st, 2006 @ 6:23 pm

    jahrta said: Sounds like you had a good dad, even if he wasn’t too big on toys. As far as the racist, defeatist and woefully inequipped public schools in your area are concerned, would it be beyond the realm of possibility to consider moving to a better school district?

    An excellent school system would be ideal but I think that I still would prefer schooling my daughter at home if its financially possible. I think that for the most part public schools are garbage and I don’t want my daughter socialized by children I don’t know. Is this controlling? Yep, but I won’t apologize for being careful about my daughter is around to pick up crazy ideas from.

  24. jahrta
    February 1st, 2006 @ 9:42 am

    If you home-school your kid I can all but guarantee you that you will have a social retard on your hands by age 14, and she’ll only come to hate you for it when you release her into the real world.

    straight up, yo

  25. SmartBlkWoman
    February 1st, 2006 @ 7:51 pm

    jahrta said: If you home-school your kid I can all but guarantee you that you will have a social retard on your hands by age 14, and she’ll only come to hate you for it when you release her into the real world. straight up, yo

    lol, no she won’t be! I’ve seen plenty of successful homeschool kids that didn’t turn out messed up and weren’t virgins until their 40’s. She’ll be ok

  26. jahrta
    February 2nd, 2006 @ 2:41 pm

    for every normal home-schooled kid you’ve seen, i can all but guarantee i’ve seen four hanging from tree limbs from their underwear.

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