The Raving Theist

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Give Us this Day Our Daily God

November 8, 2005 | 27 Comments

Should children be coerced by the state into publicly, verbally proclaiming the insane lie that God exists? Newsday puts that question to the clergy in a milder form (“Should ‘under God’ stay in the Pledge of Allegiance?”) and gets some predictable answers. Rev. James A. Graziano, pastor of the Faith Tabernacle Church of God in West Babylon sounds like he might as well be Rocky Graziano:

The Pledge of Allegiance recognizes that this country and its flag are not independent of God. Yet, there has always been the influence of those who promote radical individualism and feed on their own self-will. This minority would like to erase every symbol and acknowledgment of God in our society. I believe the majority of Americans want God, not only in the Pledge of Allegiance but in every aspect of life.

Yes, a moderate majority-imposed hive-mentality beats self-willed radical individualism every time. But what’s this about God in every aspect of life? Can the cashier at the DMV make you say “Allah Akbar” thirty times before he renews your license? What’s that, Jimmy? Are you going “radical” on us? Sheikh Fadhel Al-Sahlani, of the Al-Khoei Islamic Center in Jamaica wouldn’t have a problem with it:

As a member of the clergy, we believe in God. When we seek the blessings of God, that act that we have embarked on may be blessed. If we do not seek the blessings of God, then the act will be cursed. So from an Islamic point of view, we must say that we should do [the Pledge of Allegiance] under the name of God.

I sure don’t want any of my acts to be cursed. Hey, wait, writing is an “act.” I better put “God” at the end of this sentence — God! And now that I think about it, typing each word is an act, so maybe I should put God after God every God word God from God now God on God!. In God fact God, every God letter God is God an God act. IGodsGod tGodhGodiGodsGod eGodnGodoGoduGodgGodhGod GgodoGoddGod fGodoGodrGod yGodoGoduGod?

Comments

27 Responses to “Give Us this Day Our Daily God”

  1. cubic rooms
    November 8th, 2005 @ 10:32 am

    Tgodhgodigodsgod igodsgod hgodagodrgoddgod.

  2. jahrta
    November 8th, 2005 @ 10:59 am

    Yes, it is hard, but it quite literally illustrates the atheist plight of “reading between the gods.”

    If you want to switch things up a bit you may want to try substituting the word “bullshit” for god every once in a while.

  3. Nick the Dick
    November 8th, 2005 @ 10:59 am

    I wonder if they praise god when they molest little girls there too: http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/da/press/2004/12_17_04.htm

  4. SKR
    November 8th, 2005 @ 11:14 am

    When talk gets around to the Pledge, I propose enthusiastically that we change it to “One nation under Christ, with liberty and justice for all Christians.”

    Even Christians often recoil and stammer that we cannot do something like that. Makes for great dinner conversation.

  5. DJ KAPUT
    November 8th, 2005 @ 11:31 am

    When I get to the under god part I just change it from

    …One nation under God”

    to

    …One nation underwear”

    It will get a few strange looks but thats part of the fun

  6. JUST_ANOTHER_PRIMATE
    November 8th, 2005 @ 12:16 pm

    In my local viewing area one of the churches has a “public service” commercial on TV that has a bunch of their brainwashed 1st or 2nd grade lemmings reciting the pledge.

    It is so disgusting – you know the kids have no idea of the myriad implications of those two words “under god” …. particularly when being regurgitated by mindless little saps.

    (and as far as that Sheik thinking it’s OK — damn right it’s OK because the xtian god is the true god and their moon god will be crushed by the xtian resistance —– all praise jeeebus the lord!)

    UGH !!!!

  7. MBains
    November 8th, 2005 @ 1:55 pm

    “One nation under Christ, with liberty and justice for all Christians.”

    God damn that was good!

  8. Mookie
    November 8th, 2005 @ 2:04 pm

    How about just not say the pledge at all? I always thought it was silly to stand and talk to a flag anyway. Even after all of this mindless worshipping of such a symbol, people still don’t understand what freedom, justice and equality means. Repetitive droning just doesn’t work. Repetitive droning just doesn’t work. Repetitive droning just doesn’t work. Repetitive droning just doesn’t work…

  9. DamnRight
    November 8th, 2005 @ 2:59 pm

    … a little bit of brain washing maybe?… Religions thrive on this approach…

  10. roxtar
    November 8th, 2005 @ 3:12 pm

    I’ve heard it suggested that I can just leave out the words “under God” when I feel inclined to recite the pledge. Great…a “separate but equal” pledge honoring liberty and justice for all….. Looks like irony isn’t as dead as we might have thought.

  11. kmisho
    November 8th, 2005 @ 3:52 pm

    The Pledge of Allegiance recognizes that this country and its flag are not independent of God. Yet, there has always been the influence of those who promote radical individualism and feed on their own self-will. This minority would like to erase every symbol and acknowledgment of God in our society. I believe the majority of Americans want God, not only in the Pledge of Allegiance but in every aspect of life.

    Predictable yes. This is the stereotyped way to talk about these things as approved by the radical right. It’s probably in a manual on how to talk right-wing somewhere. Every single point he makes is WRONG. If there is a god, we cannot be independent of it. One could then say of the pledge, “What an amazing grasp of the blatantly obvious.”

    Then we’re on to the usual diatribe about individualism, speckled as usual with demeaning analogies. I, for one, do not “feed on” my “own self-will.” I recognize EMPATHY (not god) to be THE central moral tenet. As such, I am always putting myself in another’s shoes to try to feel what it must be like. I would submit the exact opposite of what that commentator said is true. Theists like him are the radical self-worshippers. Only THEY have the truth and it is only good and right to fascistically insist that everyone be like them.

    As an atheist, I certainly do not desire to “erase every symbol” of “God in our society.” As an atheist, I understand the high value and importance of freedom of religion, which must include freedom from religion if it is have any value at all. I honestly don’t give a damn what anyone else believes. What bothers me is when they think I have to think the same way they do or else I am evil or lost.

    A peculiar oddity of the evangelical mind is that it thinks stopping evangelists from raping your mind equals discrimination against them.

    I believe every American wishes he could levitate and fly around at will. Unfortunately, this ability, like god, does not exist.

  12. Frank
    November 8th, 2005 @ 4:32 pm

    I firmly believe pledging allegiance to the state flies right in the face of liberty. We are not the servants of the state whereby we should pledge our allegiance. No, the government was intended to be the servant of the people and subject to us, NOT the other way around.

    The pledge was borne out of an era that was heavily influenced by socialism and its ideas. Ideas that are contrary to our constitutional foundation.

    “We the people” only owe our allegiance to the government insofar as the government has our best interests at heart. When that ceases to be the case not only do we owe no allegiance but we have a right to rebel, separate, and form another government that DOES have our interests at heart. At least that’s what Thomas Jefferson said.

    In fact, I think it’s wrong to expect the citizens of this country to say a pledge that contains elements with which they may not agree. You don’t believe in God? You shouldn’t be compelled to imply you do. Me? I don’t like the part about “indivisible.” That directly contradicts the principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence.

    The pledge is nothing but a problem, it’s inconsistent with our founding principles (on a number of levels) and, in my opinion, just downright unAmerican.

    Let’s end the whole “under God” debate right now and just ditch the pledge altogether.

  13. jahrta
    November 8th, 2005 @ 4:52 pm

    frank rocks. even if he is a theist.

  14. Francois Tremblay
    November 8th, 2005 @ 5:18 pm

    Imposing Christianity on children is child abuse God. These people should be jailed God. I hate people who believe in God God.

    Praise God and his barbarian invaders God.

  15. hermesten
    November 8th, 2005 @ 10:09 pm

    This is one area where I agree wholeheartedly with Frank. I find the prevailing Christian pledge fetish quite bizarre. It starts right off with “I pledge allegiance to the FLAG….” AND to the Republic for which it stands.

    The pledge is nothing more than conformity and obedience practice. Where it’s not meaningless it’s plain wrong. Even as a kid I thought, yeah, right, when I recited the part about “liberty and justice for all.” We now live under a government that openly declares its opposition to this concept, even in principle. Liberty and justice for all, who are they fuckin’ kidding? Apparently the same people who believe the chimp when he says “we don’t torture” out of one side of his mouth while the other side is hard at work trying to prevent congress from making torture illegal.

  16. crosius
    November 9th, 2005 @ 1:04 pm

    I’ve never really understood how biblical apologists reconcile the pledge (or testifying in court, for that matter) with Matthew 5:34-36, which forbids the taking of oaths, and leaves little room for interpretation as an allegory. The verses essentially say, “Don’t swear by anything, just tell the truth.” They also insinuate that the first people to step up to take oaths are the ones you have to watch (which is something I’ve always maintained – the liar is the guy with his hand on the bible).

    33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

    34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:

    35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

    36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

    37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

  17. dnash
    November 9th, 2005 @ 3:59 pm

    Crosius brings up the point I was about to make – how do these die-hard Christians reconcile the Pledge of Allegiance with, say, the commandments about “no false gods” and “no graven images”?

  18. Frank
    November 9th, 2005 @ 4:17 pm

    dnash — I can answer that, the typical Christian doesn’t think about the contradiction between the teachings of Scripture and the pledge, therefore they don’t TRY to reconcile it. I know because I fell into that category for years.

    Now, after I considered the issue I consider the pledge to be a form of idolatry for a Christian and unAmerican for all of us for the reasons I mentioned above.

    I don’t say it anymore.

  19. ss
    November 9th, 2005 @ 7:04 pm

    “Should children be coerced by the state into publicly, verbally proclaiming the insane lie that God exists?”

    Heh. I thought that was a satirical statement poking fun at the hypocritical doctrinal purity of liberal atheism. You nailed it. Then you went nuts.

  20. SKR
    November 9th, 2005 @ 7:26 pm

    Saying the Pledge is a special moment in American life that is reserved for those who feel the fire in their veins to rise and to speak as one people, united for a brief moment, undivided by ideas and ideologies.

    If you cannot say it with conviction, loud enough so they can hear you overseas, then just shut up. Others are willing to say it for you, and willing to die for your right not to say it. You can read their names on a million white crosses around the world. Ironic, isn’t it?

  21. EclecticGuru
    November 9th, 2005 @ 9:28 pm

    Fuck you, SKR.

  22. Jean-Paul Fastidious
    November 10th, 2005 @ 7:18 am

    Ahem…

    “One nation, indivisible.”

    I know! Let’s literally divide that sentiment of unity with an ideological non sequitur….

    “One nation, under God, indivisible.”

  23. Dada Saves
    November 10th, 2005 @ 9:45 am

    “If you cannot say it with conviction, loud enough so they can hear you overseas, then just shut up. Others are willing to say it for you, and willing to die for your right not to say it. You can read their names on a million white crosses around the world. Ironic, isn’t it?”

    Moronic is more like it. And I’d prefer not to have Christ-Psychotics presume to speak for me, thank you.

  24. DamnRight
    November 10th, 2005 @ 10:08 am

    I’m with Frank on this one… but, I guess I’ll have to repeat it one day… isn’t it a requirement for getting your citizenship?… or at least a part of some ceremony?…

    … & yes, it does seem odd that people take oaths on the very book that forbids it… that has always puzzled me…

    … that brings up another question… if I’ve just sworn to tell “the whole truth”, why is testimony cut off & the witness instructed to “just answer the question”… the famous “that will be all” pronouncement of the Perry Mason type lawyer that does not allow a witness to clarify their answer or add further testimony that might change the understanding of the previous testimony…
    … I wonder what would happen if one were to say to the judge “excuse me, your honor, I swore to tell the whole truth and so I would like to be allowed to finish my statement”… would/should the judge allow it?…
    … it also brings up issues of evidence allowed/disallowed in court… strikes me that the court system contantly stifles witnesses & evidence, allowing only partial truths… don’t we often consider partial truths to be nothing but veiled lies?…

  25. Frank
    November 10th, 2005 @ 11:35 am

    DamnRight — you are…um…damn right! A pastor of mine once wondered why the oath in court was a promise to “tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” because that is redundant.

    If you don’t tell the “whole truth” and your omission of facts leads someone to draw a wrong conclusion then you didn’t tell the truth at all.

    If you tell the truth with a little lie mixed in (i.e. “nothing but the truth”) and your statements are misleading then you haven’t told the truth in this situation either.

    I think lawyer tricks like the ones you mentioned above need to be squashed by judges intent on getting to the truth. Because juries need to make their decisions based on all of the facts and not just the portion lawyers want them to have which cast their case in the most favorable light.

  26. FredEvil
    November 10th, 2005 @ 1:11 pm

    SKR – I agree completely, I love my country, I believe in it’s future, and I believe in it’s people. I love the pledge of allegiance, in it’s original form. You are absolutely correct, when you say –

    “Saying the Pledge is a special moment in American life that is reserved for those who feel the fire in their veins to rise and to speak as one people, united for a brief moment, undivided by ideas and ideologies.”

    Unfortunately, in the 50’s, in an effort to even further distance ourselves from the ‘Godless Commies’, they added the phrase ‘Under God’ to it. At the time, seemed like a great idea, now we know better.

    The Pledge of allegiance HAS to be Lowest Common Denominator! It has to serve ALL of the American people, or it will serve NONE of the American people…..when you hit the word ‘indivisible’, doesn’t it strike you as odd that the very pledge claiming this Indivisibleness is actually DIVIDING the country? Admittedly, only between mostly Xtians, and the rest of us who don’t want a Xtian government, but still, the Pledge is actually the cause for division…..or more accurately, the one phrase is, which was a change made by a legislative body, and which has not yet been subject to review.

    God

  27. Crosius
    November 11th, 2005 @ 11:56 am

    “I pledge allegiance to the United States, for exactly as long as it deserves my allegiance, and not one second longer,” would make a much better pledge, IMO.

    But it certainly wouldn’t comfort the State’s concerns about it’s citizens’ continued obedience.

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