The Raving Theist

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Kill the Before Life

October 13, 2005 | 20 Comments

[I]f my Mom was unable to have raised me right and provided for me adequately, I would definitely have wanted her to abort me.

AK in Comments section to Permutations post

Comments

20 Responses to “Kill the Before Life”

  1. thickslab
    October 13th, 2005 @ 1:53 pm

    Eesh, that’s some awful grammar.

  2. Kate B.
    October 13th, 2005 @ 2:09 pm

    So you admit that you had a will in the womb, and the desire to live if such were feasible? You fetus-loving softy, you’ve finally seen the light.

  3. benjamin
    October 13th, 2005 @ 7:27 pm

    Every time I hear this claim, it always comes in the form of a conditional.

  4. Percy
    October 14th, 2005 @ 8:45 am

    “[I]f my Mom was unable to have raised me right and provided for me adequately, I would definitely have wanted her to abort me.”

    But you’re making that statement with the benefit of hindsight and knowledge – you made a choice about what you would like to happen in that event, a choice you have the ability to make known. How do you have the right to take someone’s life when you don’t know if they’ve made the same choice, and when they have no way of telling you if they have? And why do people ignore the possibility of adoption?

  5. Sarah
    October 14th, 2005 @ 1:28 pm

    Worry not then child-
    worry if there was no system in place to help your mother get food, shelter, possibly gainful employment.
    Worry if adoption was illegal.
    Worry if she never loved you.

    But now- define right, define adequate…there are a lot of wonderful people in this world who have started out with nothing and yet are still determined to make a go of it- it is up to you to make it so.

    You cannot blame your mother or anyone really for the person you are.

    And while you are at it, do something good for someone else.
    And that’s about enough out of me…

  6. Bryan
    October 14th, 2005 @ 2:34 pm

    Oh gosh, what if one were aborted before one were born?

    I, for one, am quite happy with the thought of my non-existance. If my parent(s) decided to abort me, it would not bother me, seeing as how I never would’ve known it happened.

    I know it must be hard for the evangelists, with the “promise” of eternal life, to imagine the possibility that won’t live forever (or ever) after all.

  7. maja
    October 14th, 2005 @ 5:42 pm

    My mother wanted to abort me (four kids, one dead after long sickness, father only home from work at weekend, little money). She decided against it (‘Who I’m I to decide about life and dead?’).

    Before she died she told me she was happy with her choose. Even when not everything worked out perfectly, it worked out good enough.

    She also thought me that if you ‘take it home’ (plant, cat, child), you must take care of it. It is your responsibility, and in the end you will love them.

    But for me, being aborted is the same as not being born.
    To quote E.A. Housman: ‘Then it was well with me, in days ere I was born.’

  8. heretic slayer
    October 15th, 2005 @ 2:43 am

    Bryan: Apologies but that is a very stupid statement. It isn’t hard at all to imagine annihilation. We just hope for something better.

  9. MBains
    October 15th, 2005 @ 10:51 am

    Nope. Bryan is correct.

    You wouldn’t care at all if you were never born; just like if you were never conceived. Get over the idea that you have a Right to Life before your parent grants it to you. You have a Responsibility for Your Life which evolves as you age and mature. If you don’t live up to whatever that responsibility entails for you, the probability that you WILL cease living increases over time.

    But it won’t be like you were never born, so get over it. Don’t have a child if you don’t want to do so. Have one if you do.

    And mind your own “fucking” business. Your mother’s business pre-you was NOT your business because You didn’t exist, no matter what plans or fantasies about their future child your parents may have had.

    OTH, I do think abortion is overutilized by some people (it can be quantified & qualified but I don’t have all of the datasets) and that BC & abstinence are safer and more emotionally clean options.

  10. Dorothy
    October 15th, 2005 @ 3:15 pm

    There is no ultimate anialation….but there is a hell. “hell” is God giving you what you chose…..eternity without him. So if that’s
    your choice, don’t forget to have this one put on your tombstone
    “Here lies an athiest…all dressed up and no where to go!” Think hard….it’s all eternity….John 3:16

  11. darwinfish
    October 15th, 2005 @ 11:52 pm

    you know, I kindof want that on my tombstone…sadly they only let you have those small flat plaqes these days…so they can mow right over you instead of around.

  12. reconciled
    October 16th, 2005 @ 1:34 am

    “There is no ultimate anialation….but there is a hell. “hell” is God giving you what you chose…..eternity without him. So if that’s
    your choice, don’t forget to have this one put on your tombstone
    “Here lies an athiest…all dressed up and no where to go!” Think hard….it’s all eternity….John 3:16″

    This is all a bunch of nonsense. Here’s one to put on your tombstone:

    “Here lies an arrogant Christian who claimed to know it all, and shoved it’s delusional lunacy into other people’s space… An arrogant fool hypocritically judging others as fools. Thought nothing….only myth for a cult…. Now, dead, and decomposing like everyone else, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, … human.”

    Get out of the cult, and live life as if you were already living it forever.

  13. MBains
    October 16th, 2005 @ 6:50 am

    Get out of the cult, and live life as if you were already living it forever.

    Amen.

  14. Qalmlea
    October 16th, 2005 @ 10:39 am

    “hell” is God giving you what you chose…..eternity without him said Dorothy

    Even assuming your version of God exists, I am not convinced that being “with God” is better than being “without.” Why? Because I have yet to find a self-consistent statement of Christian doctrine. It’s full of so many contradictions that I conclude if the Christian God exists, He must be Insane. So it is a matter of self-preservation to avoid Him.

    (Worth noting: since most Christians indicate that God is everywhere, it is a logical contradiction that one can ever be “without God.” But consider that this means God is present for every atrocity as well as for every wonder. )

  15. leon
    October 17th, 2005 @ 8:11 am

    ad hoc hypotheses

  16. leon
    October 17th, 2005 @ 8:12 am

    If there was no moon, I wouldn’t be here.
    If earth was closer to the sun, I wouldn’t be here.
    If the dinosaurs did not become extinct, I wouldn’t be here.
    If our sun was closer to the center of the galaxy, I wouldn’t be here.
    If the asteroid that hit the earth 50 million years ago was bigger, I wouldn’t be here.
    If my father had his balls shot off during the war, I wouldn’t be here.

    Isn’t this similar to proving a negative? The possibilities is infinite.
    Prove there is no god.
    Prove there is no fire-breathing dragon in my living room.
    Prove there is no red HGJGTJHGK.

    The later circumstance is an “absence of evidence is evidence of absence”, period.

    The former circumstance is an “absence of an event is an event that is absence”, period.

  17. benjamin
    October 17th, 2005 @ 9:53 am

    Get over the idea that you have a Right to Life before your parent grants it to you.
    Wow, I didn’t realize parents granted the right to life. What if they forget? What if they wait too long, and someone kills you before they do it, is that person still a murderer? I’m going to call my parents asap, and make sure I have mine. Meanwhile I’ll be careful not to piss anyone off, because if someone kills me, I want it to be a crime. Also, as someone considering having children in the next few years, can you tell me what I need to do to grant my children their right to life? Are there forms?
    Also, according to the pro-abortion logic posted here, it should be legal to kill children anytime before they display a true consciousness, because they can’t desire to continue living. And no one can ever lament the loss of their life, no matter when it’s ended.
    In my mind, there is nothing wrong with suicide when your debts and obligations are fulfilled, but you DO NOT get to make that decision for someone else.

  18. kmisho
    October 17th, 2005 @ 3:44 pm

    The question implies that if I had a chance to decide to be born then I would have lept at the chance. I don’t see how anyone could answer that in the affirmative.

    I don’t understand when people say they love being alive. Compared to what?

  19. Percy
    October 17th, 2005 @ 4:58 pm

    kmisho,

    “I don’t understand when people say they love being alive. Compared to what?”

    That’s a bit akin to saying “I don’t understand when people say they love being sober. Compared to what?” Whether or not someone has experienced something is irrelevant – it’s their choice to experience it (or prefer it), not yours.

  20. MBains
    October 23rd, 2005 @ 10:58 am

    Wow, I didn’t realize parents granted the right to life.

    Ignorance of a fact doesn’t make it not so.

    Who, if not 2 individuals contributing 1 sperm & 1 ovum, choose to attempt to creat another person?

    The only factual atlternative to it being no one is something equivalent to a “Doctor who obtained the sperm & ovum by irrelevant means.”

    Our parents give us our Right to Life. Or not.

    I gets as complicated as you want to make after that, but not before unless others start minding the parents’ business.

    What if they wait too long, and someone kills you before they do it, is that person still a murderer?

    Non-sequitor. You don’t exist to be killed until the parents (or aforementioned Dr.) decide (however they do so) to create you.

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