The Raving Theist

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The Incredible Uncredible

September 24, 2005 | 15 Comments

Following up on my post from yesterday, the Uncredible Hallq makes a credible point about those who “rebel” against certain types of non-religious beliefs:

I don’t know of anyone spending time arguing against leprechauns, but plenty of people do spend their time arguing about other sorts of nonsense that people believe: astrology, alien visitations, psychic powers, homeopathy, etc. By this logic, James Randi must secretly beleive psychic powers exist, and he’s just rebelling against what he knows in his heart.

Comments

15 Responses to “The Incredible Uncredible”

  1. Adam
    September 24th, 2005 @ 1:34 am

    That’s an excellent point. Why limit it even to the supernatural? Does George Bush secretly think terrorism is great and he’s just rebelling against this truth? Does Cindy Sheehan secretly love the war in Iraq? Is Rush Limbaugh a closet feminazi? What standard does the theist present to determine who is presenting an honest argument and who isn’t? Everyone wastes time trying to win arguments that may or may not matter.

  2. Daniel
    September 24th, 2005 @ 3:16 am

    Actually, Rush Limbaugh was a closet drug addict…hmmm.

  3. wyote
    September 24th, 2005 @ 3:38 am

    I’m sure that Randi and many others would argue against leprechauns too if anyone believed in them. I’m not sure what his motivations are, but he seems genuinely skeptical to me.

  4. LucyMuff
    September 24th, 2005 @ 4:16 am

    Randi is sinner and wil burn in hell unless he acept JESUS LORD

    I pity the fool

  5. Jean-Paul Fastidious
    September 24th, 2005 @ 6:30 am

    The only reason we aleprechaunists don’t get all worked up about leprechauns is because the leprechaunists have been properly suppressed by the Global Aleprechaunist Conspiracy.

    Back in the 1960s, when high-ranking leprechaunists in the US government were actively trying to turn our nation’s economy to one based on chasing after pots of gold (going to the moon was only a cover story for Project Blarney — a faster-than-rainbows nuclear rocket), pushing to teach leprechaun anatomy in biology classes, and having the FDA approve Lucky Charms, we aleprechaunists acted quickly and had all the leprechaunists rounded up and either deported back to Ireland or shot (who do you think it was on the grassy knoll?)

    Unfortunately, unlike the can-do spirit of the aleprechaunists, the leaders of the atheist movement have been too deferential to the theists. Less talk and more action, I say!

  6. MBains
    September 24th, 2005 @ 6:50 am

    Chris Hallquist writes very well. Good choice here TRA. What do desperate theists say? Atheist activists must believe in Theos or we wouldn’t be denouncing them; right? {shakin’head}

    And NICE satirical parody there Jean Paul F!

  7. rob
    September 24th, 2005 @ 7:01 am

    I don’t know about leprechauns, but elfism is a popular belief in Iceland. 80% of icelanders believe in elves, and the people there regularly build around the areas that they think are inhabited by them.
    http://www.thetravelrag.com/docs/10058.asp

    I wonder if Steve G believes in elves. By his logic, it would be dogmatic not to.

  8. Jean-Paul Fastidious
    September 24th, 2005 @ 9:46 am

    Here’s a theory I’ve been mulling over for some time about the theists who use this “atheists are rebelling against God” tripe. Put simply, it’s this:

    Religious people are playing God.

    The cliche accusation of “playing God” is almost exclusively used against scientists who reanimate the dead or cross-breed sharks with bears or what have you, but that usage is just trivial Luddism playing the God-card in the if-God-wanted-men-to-fly-he-would-have-given-them-wings tradition.

    No, what I mean is more literal. They are playing God in the same way that an actor plays a character. God is just a character (or rather a collection of loosely- to un-related characters) written by men. If theists weren’t playing him — by going around claiming “God thinks this” or “God wants that” or “God says not to put your penis in there” — he would no more exist than a character in a play that no one performs or even reads.

    Theism is a type of passive-agressive narcissism where one takes ones own ideas and pretends that they were God’s ideas first. Theists do this by either outright making shit up — such as Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed did — or selectively picking or interpreting the words of others who made shit up in the past such that they coincide with the theist’s own ideas.

    The atheists-rebel-against-God theists want to see atheists as shaking their fists at the sky in defiance of God, when we are actually shaking our fists at the theists in defiance of them. They’ve become so incapable of separating themselves from their role playing God that they’ve lost the ability to make a distinction between the two. To attack this theist’s ideas about God is, in his mind, to attack God himself. It’s like a delusional actor who’s criticised for his performance in Hamlet accusing the critics of hating Hamlet (as in the actual, nonfictional man Hamlet).

    If I’m rebelling against anyone, it is against mere fallible men who are presuming for their ideas and pet peeves a position of absolute universal authority over others. I don’t think the average theist would see anything wrong, much less perverse, in rebelling against the totalitarian rule of some atheistic Soviet dictatorship of mere fallible men. Well, the reality of “God” is no different than that. “God” is just a collection of men and their ideas, foisted upon others using the ultimate relativism of religion (and often a sword or two).

    Dear theists: If I rebel against you, I am not rebelling against God. If I rebel against your ideas that you pretend are God’s ideas, I am not rebelling against God. You people are not God. Please get that into your thick heads.

  9. a different tim
    September 24th, 2005 @ 9:56 am

    I like this.
    This is good.

    However, I’m all in favour of playing God by crossbreeding sharks with bears and generally Meddling With Things Mankind Was Not Meant To Know.

  10. June
    September 24th, 2005 @ 11:03 am

    Well said, Jean-Paul. Moreover, believers brains are so belief-soaked, so marinated in belief that they believe that what they believe is so obvious that everyone else must believe it.

    Hence the inanity of believers quoting from the Bible to prove that the Bible says something.

    Hence the recursive argument that when I debate them, I must really be a believer in my heart because why else would I be debating them?

  11. GW
    September 24th, 2005 @ 12:41 pm

    Excellent Jean-Paul. I have heard pre-dinner prayers at my in-laws house that support your theory. We tolerate this drivel to keep peace in the family, but what a pain in the ass they are.

  12. Mookie
    September 24th, 2005 @ 1:49 pm

    JPF,

    Very astute observation. I doubt believers will understand it, though.

  13. Dave
    September 24th, 2005 @ 8:27 pm

    I could never understand why some many christians got really worked up by the harry potter books insisting that their children should not be allowed to read them, i mean its just a book. But then again so is the Bible. You wanna brain wash them with the right stuff.

  14. Paul
    September 25th, 2005 @ 8:59 pm

    But of course people spend time railing against all sorts of murky thinking, try http://www.skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/

  15. MBains
    September 26th, 2005 @ 4:51 am

    Theism is a type of passive-agressive narcissism where one takes ones own ideas and pretends that they were God’s ideas first.

    Absolutely and empirically observable. This fact has nothing debatable about it. It is an observation rather than an opinion.

    Awesome observation JPF.

    It’s like a delusional actor who’s criticised for his performance in Hamlet accusing the critics of hating Hamlet (as in the actual, nonfictional man Hamlet).

    Unlike god, at least Hamlet was based on something that actually existed. The quality of the delusions (actor’s and theist’s) is equivalent none-the-less.

    Why is this so hard for so many humans to observe???

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