The Raving Theist

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Shit on It

May 14, 2005 | 34 Comments

Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, on why the Muslim scriptures shouldn’t be flushed down the toilet:

Disrespect for the Holy Quran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States. We honor the sacred books of all the world’s great religions. Disrespect for the Holy Quran is abhorrent to us all.

.

All of us? Yeah, I know diplomats have to say this kind of crap of keep the savages at bay. Who knows, they might even start killing people over getting that stupid book wet. Oh, that’s what they’re already doing. Just like that book we all respect tells them to.

Comments

34 Responses to “Shit on It”

  1. Xianghong
    May 15th, 2005 @ 1:14 am

    Flushing holy books down the toilet isn’t very smart. First it doesn’t even make very good toilet paper. Second you’re going to choke it up.

  2. Jean-Paul Fastidious
    May 15th, 2005 @ 2:37 am

    Right, which is why holy books should be taken to recycling centers to be turned into proper toilet paper. Just make sure you handle them with respect before recycling.

    (That link poses a modern problem: If you had a computer file that contained the name of Allah (SWT) and you are using a Macintosh computer, would it be against Islamic law to dispose of that document in the Mac’s Trashcan? Should Muslims only use computers running Microsoft Windows, which features a Sharia-compatible Recycle Bin? Perhaps recent rumors of Bill Gates’ (MSFT) conversion to Islam were not a hoax after all.)

  3. vjack
    May 15th, 2005 @ 8:15 am

    The idea that a book deserves greater respect than others because it is “holy” is simply absurd. Disrespect for fairy tales is expected among intelligent, rational humans. At least when I come here, I am reminded that there are some out there!

  4. Maine_Zetetic
    May 15th, 2005 @ 8:43 am

    Isn’t it odd that there has been so much protest over the supposed desecration of the Quran when, if I recall correctly, there was much less protest over the horrible abuse of prisoners at Abu Grab. Seems like some priorities are a bit backwards!

  5. Bill from INDC
    May 15th, 2005 @ 9:37 am

    The idea that a book deserves greater respect than others because it is “holy” is simply absurd. Disrespect for fairy tales is expected among intelligent, rational humans. At least when I come here, I am reminded that there are some out there!

    Except that when intelligent, rational humans realize that 85% of the rest of the planet has special affinity for these books, rational, intelligent and practical humans realize that it’s probably the wisest course of action to show respect for the book.

  6. leon
    May 15th, 2005 @ 11:45 am

    Bill from INDC

    Are you threatening me?

    Bow down to the Goddess of the Wonderland Universe, ALICE and her prophet Lewis Carroll!

    KNEEL I SAY!

  7. Tomek
    May 15th, 2005 @ 12:47 pm

    Just pretend you respect it when it would be wise to do so :)

  8. boywonder
    May 15th, 2005 @ 1:03 pm

    Pretending to respect the rubbish in all of the “sacred” books is why we have most of our problems in the first place. When will we see that it is a war between religious ideals, not just our own greed and stupidity. It is still taboo to talk openly about the stupidity of any religion. Unless you’re a jew. For some reason, most people don’t have a problem with anti-semitism. Condoleeza (damn, I hate that woman) is only fooling those of us who want to further lift the shroud over our eyes (pun intended). If we don’t openly talk about the irrationability of our different religions, some area of the world will eventually become a big, green, glowing glass dustbin. And I doubt it will be the US.

  9. Bill from INDC
    May 15th, 2005 @ 10:36 pm

    Pretending to respect the rubbish in all of the “sacred” books is why we have most of our problems in the first place.

    Right, well you try out your approach and see how it works. Might I suggest you start in a Pakistani madrasa?

    Otherwise, what an idiotic comment. No one is “fooling anyone,” merely using rather standard diplomatic speak that shows respect for religion, something which perhaps 85-90% of the world adheres to enthusiatically, and which humankind actually has a natural disposition to embrace. This is not “fooling,” it’s practical and sound behavior outside of a bubble of a bunch of atheists that pat themselves on the back for how much smarter they are than the “godidiots.” And I say this as an agnostic (that heavily leans towards atheism) that thinks that the Bible, Koran, etc. are generally rubbish.

    This is the world we live in. Religion has been as much of a civilizing influence as a destructive one, and it’s something that will be around for probably as long as mankind is around, and certainly will still dominate indicated philosophical affiliation for the vast majority of the people on the planet during your lifetime. Thus, wishfully sneering for paradigms that don’t exist tends to display the exact same blinkered illogic that you ascribe to those that choose to believe in religious “fairy tales.” Everyone’s got their fairy tale.

    Think about it. Or don’t.

  10. Bill from INDC
    May 15th, 2005 @ 10:41 pm

    And leon –

    If you can get a billion people to jump up and down for Lewis Carroll, then we’ll talk. Personally, I think that you might have a better chance with Robert Heinlein.

  11. boywonder
    May 15th, 2005 @ 11:47 pm

    Bill from wherethehellever, what are you trying to say? We have more freedom here and I should shutup and appreciate what I’ve got? You are blind. And what’s worse, you sit on the fence pretending to make any sort of contribution to the conversations on this site. The term agnostic is reserved for people like you that prefer sitting on the sideline yelling one-liners at the people trying to learn a thing or two by talking with one another. So you are leaning towards atheism, eh? What’s stopping you from popping that cherry and joining in? Still waiting for the god verdict? Not quite sure all the facts are in? Do you really believe that politicians embracing religion or skirting around the issues related to religion is “standard diplomatic speak”? Politicians aren’t being polite to keep from hurting religious folk. They want to get elected. If you play the game, you might get elected;otherwise, an atheist (or agnostic) has no chance of being elected. That is why we need open discourse about the good and bad in religion. To keep pretending religion is beyond rational discussion, or too taboo to talk about in public circles other than a “bubble of a bunch of atheists that pat themselves on the back”, is why no progress has been made between secularists and theists. The funny thing is, I don’t even get on this site to have pissing contests with theists. I just like to talk with like-minded people. I won’t ignore comments from theists or agnostics, but I am not here to flex my mental muscle. I don’t care how smart others are compared to me. I know there are thousands of people smarter than me and that I am smarter than thousands more. Who cares? ‘If we all spent less time looking for the inevitable faults in others and more time learning about our selves’, (paraphrased from Bruce Lee) then perhaps many of the problems that we currently worry about would absolve themselves.

  12. oDd42
    May 16th, 2005 @ 12:02 am
  13. Simbol
    May 16th, 2005 @ 12:05 am

    Bill

    I agree with you in general, but I don’t think that all the 85-90% of world population would react the way some mulims did, because some fool soldier put some Qurans in the toilette. I suppose you are alluding in your 85-90% all the religious people in the world. I don’t think, for example, that the british christian will kill 19 british muslim because some jihadist burned 20 bibles in Bagdad. If muslims wants respect for their religion one must ask them to do the same for other religions which they don’t. On the contrary, muslims are the most fanatics and intolerant in that 85-90%. I want to remember you that the disciples of Muhammad has a nice mosque in Rome, but until now catholic christians are not allowed even a humble chapel in Mecca.

  14. hermesten
    May 16th, 2005 @ 11:04 am

    Ok, let me get this right. Aside from the humorous aspects of someone like Rice talking about “disrespect” for the Koran while we’re shooting up families and reporters at road blocks and dropping bombs on people’s houses, what, it’s OK to beat prisoners to death, humiliate them sexually, and torture them, but flushing a book down the toliet is a bad thing? Now me, I happen to think torturing and killing prisoners is a bad thing, whereas there is nothing at all wrong with flushing some stupid book down the toliet –especially if it is an effective means of interrogation. But I guess that’s just part of my fucked-up atheist value system where I think that an actual human being is more important than a copy of some book that can be replaced for a couple dollars.

  15. TG
    May 16th, 2005 @ 10:02 pm

    So they burn many American flags every day they can for the cameras, and then get all bent out of shape over the rumor of one book going in a toilet (I’m not clear on how you’d actually get a book down a toilet, but maybe they have industrial military toilets or something). Screw them. I’m still waiting for all the Islamic moderates to speak up a bit louder…

  16. glenstonecottage
    May 17th, 2005 @ 10:22 am

    Wingnut: someone who is deeply offended by American flag burning, but enthusiastic about Koran toilet-flushing.

  17. hermesten
    May 17th, 2005 @ 10:35 am

    “I’m not clear on how you’d actually get a book down a toilet, but maybe they have industrial military toilets or something”

    Let me enlighten you. In the first place you’re taking the statement much too literally. But the procedure is really quite simple. You tear out a few pages at a time, throw them in, and flush. A single flush of the entire book would not provide the kind of extended offense beneficial to interrogation, even if it was possible.

  18. hermesten
    May 17th, 2005 @ 10:47 am

    To clarify: I’m not in favor of flushing the Koran, or any other book, down a toliet. I consider both burning an American flag and flushing books down toliets trivial symbolic acts that do not in the least offend me. I tend to think the whole point of this story, which was probably planted by the Bush administration, is to focus attention onto something trivial, and away from the way we treat actual human beings.

    However, this whole incident is a good illustration of how trivial bullshit is used to stir-up and control people. Demonstrators could bankrupt themselves buying and burning American flags and it wouldn’t raise my blood pressure 1 mm. And if the feds ever arrest me and want to extract information they’ll actually have to torture me, because flushing books down toliets, showing me tits, letting dogs growl in my dog-loving face, and rubbing me with menstrual blood, will have no effect on me since I have no emotional investment in the symbolism of silly belief systems.

  19. T Dworsky
    May 19th, 2005 @ 6:18 pm

    I think it ridiculous to criticise someone for desecrating a “holy book” when that person’s job is to get under the skin of his detainee. I think it’s not a useful tactic in the propaganda of brainwashing individuals, but at least they’re trying to get information. I am an atheist but would I have done that? Never would have thought it a good idea.

  20. St. Teabag
    May 19th, 2005 @ 6:36 pm

    If they don’t want you to use holy texts to wipe your ass they shouldn’t print them on that nice ultra thin paper

  21. boywonder
    May 19th, 2005 @ 11:04 pm

    St. Teabag, I haven’t used holy books to wipe my ass, but I’ve found the ultra-thin rice paper good for rolling doobies. I have sparked one using Genesis: And let there be light!

  22. boywonder
    May 19th, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

    Seriously, though. Doesn’t all this political doulblespeak boil down to “We are christians, you are muslims” talk? I’m about halfway through Sam Harris’ book “The End of Faith” and I felt he hit the nail on the head when he said we basically pay lipservice to the whole terrorist thing, but that what it really comes down to is contradictory ideologies. Eventually, one will conquer the other and there will no longer be a need for doublespeak.

  23. Alex
    May 20th, 2005 @ 4:50 am

    well personally dosnt bother me about the flushing of such a book, nor would it with a christian bible, although apparently 14 odd people died over this event aye? seames once again religion causes death’s.
    funny isnt it, religion based on “love” and yet more people die over it daily then virtually anything else in the world…

  24. jahrta
    May 20th, 2005 @ 12:57 pm

    actually i think that smoking still causes more deaths per day than religion. you should really see those 17 people who died in the protests as more like death from second-hand religion. much like big tobacco, the religious institutions of the world would have you believe that what they’re selling (religion) is perfectly safe if used properly. unfortunately, no one seems capable of using it properly. I think flushing the Koran was a great step toward world peace. once we all come to grips with the stupidity and farce that is religion, and are free of its grasp on our collective psyche, we’ll find a much better use for these holy books: low-grade toilet paper. the torah already comes in a handy-dandy scroll format…all it needs are the accompanying perforations. watch out for those gilt edges on bibles, though – they tend to chafe.

    I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before some entrepreneur atheist winds up printing holy versus on sheets of toilet paper.

  25. St. Teabag
    May 20th, 2005 @ 1:22 pm

    boywonder,

    it would be interesting to find out if you get a different buzz depending on what book you smoke up with. Revelations should be avoided if you’er smoking Northern lights or any kind of superskunk…….

    (might give you the fear)

  26. boywonder
    May 20th, 2005 @ 8:47 pm

    I never considered different chapters. It gives me a reason to study the bible. Amen, don’t bogart that book my friend…

  27. Lucy Muff
    May 20th, 2005 @ 8:56 pm

    you smoke the bible and best for you to get used to smoky lungs coz in hell where you will go there is a lot of burnings, which will make you very sorry for stupid bible smoking. Maybe if you knew to read the bible instead of being a sad drug addict you would have more sense.

  28. simbol
    May 21st, 2005 @ 2:56 am

    Jahrta

    Let me smoke my cigarette peaceful. I dont’t blame big tobacco. Is my decision and I know all about lung cancer, etc. Why this gringo mania of thinking that one needs protection from ourselves? Why one cannot suicide without a lot of people and government interfering?
    I recommend oysters, champagne (Tattinger) and a big cohiba cigar. That is life.

  29. boywonder
    May 21st, 2005 @ 9:34 pm

    Lucy Muff, what can I say? Some people get high on god, I get high on life (and a little smoke). Besides, I’d rather be a stoner in hell with all the other cool mammerjammers than a stiff in heaven at a bad party.

  30. Lucy Muff
    May 21st, 2005 @ 9:59 pm

    You think it will be “cool” in hell, but you are in for big shock because it will be very very HOT with all the burnings and hot things of that nature. Lucky for you Jesus is love so you can still repent and be saved. First you must stop smokings of bible, next find jesus and beg for forgiveness, and quit being drug addict. Giveing money to church instead of dealers is great start for salvatyion.

  31. Justa Crusader
    May 22nd, 2005 @ 10:05 am

    If owned a copy of the Quran I would cover it with pig shit and dog shit.
    I would then pour gasoline on this shit filled Quran and set it on fire.

  32. Lucy Muff
    May 22nd, 2005 @ 3:09 pm

    crusader you can do that it makes nothing difference because only the Bible is word of god, and so should not be smoked unless you want a long time in hell. Doing poo on quran is same as on dictionary or da vinchi code they are only books.

  33. Rich
    May 29th, 2005 @ 7:16 pm

    Lucy Muff: love it. Might change name so not burn in hell!

  34. jolly atheist
    February 1st, 2009 @ 2:07 pm

    Justa Crusader: Don’t cover The Koran with too much shit though. They may make you eat it!

    I’m really amazed at this post and the foolish remarks under it. I am convinced once again I have rightly chosen atheism and realized that I was mistaken in thinking I could find some intellectual brainstorming here. So,Bye everybody.

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