Float Your Boat
July 30, 2004 | 19 Comments
Atheists still have to sit through prayers to God at the beginning of town council meetings, although they’ve recently been spared from Jesus talk. But how do Christians feel when an atheist gives the invocation? A member of Atheists of Florida opened proceedings at the Tampa City Council yesterday, in response to an invitation by a Jewish councilman a couple of weeks ago. At the time, one of the legislators was quizzical but open-minded:
Councilwoman Mary Alvarez said she looks forward to hearing an atheist’s version of an invocation.
“Who is he going to pray to?” asked Alvarez, a Christian. “It’s a free country . . . Whatever floats your boat.”
And how did the boat float yesterday? Kinda looks like it sank:
Half of the Tampa City Council walked out Thursday when an atheist spoke at a time usually reserved for prayer.
Other council members bowed their heads out of habit, anticipating an “Amen’” that wouldn’t come.
Letting atheist Michael Harvey lead the invocation Thursday almost brought the council meeting to a stop before it began.
As Harvey, a member of Atheists of Florida, prepared to speak, Councilman Kevin White called for a vote to find a different person to pray or to skip the invocation that traditionally begins council meetings.
White, who cast the only vote for his proposal, said he objected to a “hallowed moment” being turned over to someone to make a “political statement.”
What was Harvey’s “political statement”? He asked the board “to seek inspiration from history, science and logic.” Did Councilwoman Alvarez defend him? Not exactly. “I [don't] have to sit here and listen to an atheist tell me what I should and shouldn’t believe,” she said. And according to this Associated Press account, she actually voted with Councilman White to throw the atheist out, calling White “very brave” for making the effort and adding “I just can’t sit here and listen to someone that does not believe in a supreme being.”
She’s not asking much, really — for Alvarez, apparently, any Supreme Being will do. Here she is cutting the ribbon at the opening ceremony for the new home of Tampa’s Church of Scientology — which teaches that we’re all stuffed with the souls of dead space aliens murdered and brought to Earth by the evil galactic ruler Xenu 75 million years ago. So what if Xenu packed the souls into boxes and took them to huge cinemas where they had to spend days watching special 3D movies which brainwashed them with false stories about God, the Devil and Christ — he’s still better, in Alvarez’ book, than history, science and logic.
[Link via Redfred]
July 30th, 2004 @ 2:38 pm
From the article:
“More and more atheists are rising up, not in anger, but to take our rightful place in the community,” Kirkhart said in a telephone interview from Los Angeles. “When we do so, the intimidation and discrimination becomes apparent to most Americans, and most Americans find it abhorrent.”
I’m not sure whether this is an entirely honest statement or largely political rhetoric. While I applaud the efforts of atheists to take ‘our rightful place in the community’, and while I do my best to do so myself, it is sadly not at all my experience that most Americans take notice and find the discrimination and intimidation against atheists and other freethinkers to be abhorrent. In my experience, people either agree quite emphatically with the intimidation and so forth, or don’t care because they think atheists are just deliberately trying to get attention, and so forth.
July 30th, 2004 @ 4:01 pm
It’s Just So Cute When They Stamp Their Little Feet Like That!
About half of the Tampa City Council members walked out of their meeting yesterday when atheist Michael Harvey, of Atheists of Florida, gave an invocation and asked them to seek inspiration from logic, science, and history. Gasp! Not logic, science,…
July 30th, 2004 @ 8:02 pm
Regardless of what you believe, it’s not hard to understand that God is NOT a topic for a public meeting. How utterly stupid do you have to be not to get that? Maybe OSHA needs to put warning labels on bibles!
July 30th, 2004 @ 10:05 pm
Hypocrisy is a by-product of religious belief and to be expected from all godidiots. Apparently a display of tolerance, a defense of free speech, or some respect for a fellow council
July 30th, 2004 @ 10:10 pm
Should anyone feel compelled, they can write the good folks of the Tampa City Council by going here:
http://www.tampagov.net/dept_City_Council/
I’ll be sure to drop Mr. White a line tonight at some point.
July 30th, 2004 @ 11:51 pm
What’s wrong with God? You act like your disbelief in Him isn’t blatantly offensive to others who do, when it is.
BTW, History, Science and Logic all point to the existence of God.
July 31st, 2004 @ 12:27 am
Billy Joe Bob:
How about turning off the Jerry Springer Show in your trailer and thinking about what you just posted? Why in hell should it be “blatantly offensive” to godidiots like you that other people don’t believe in your fairy tale invisible sky man? I’m not blantantly offended that people like you believe in nonsensical rubbish, so please don’t get your undies in a snit that I don’t.
What’s wrong with God? Well, what’s wrong with Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? What’s wrong with them is that they are all make believe. They don’t exist.
History, Science and Logic do not point to the existence of God, but they sure do point to the utter stupidity of godidiots like you throughout the ages.
July 31st, 2004 @ 2:00 am
Christians are just used to making uncritical assertions about the proof of existance of God.
July 31st, 2004 @ 2:04 am
The religious are especially good at taking offense. They get so much practice at it. It’s easily done when you have a philosophy of irrationality, giving rise to numerous self-contradictions.
Anyone who thinks “History, Science, and Logic” (sic) all point to God are simply looking at those things through the lens of their irrational philosophy, which they call their religion. To them, God exists; therefore it’s easy for them to “see Him” in anything, from a tortilla to a torture chamber.
July 31st, 2004 @ 7:56 am
One of the things I am most grateful to atheists and agnostics for is that they do not proselytize, at least in the manner that many religious zealots do. The reaction here by Kevin White and his ilk is that they fear logic and reasoning, a form of bigotry.
August 1st, 2004 @ 12:52 pm
Billy Joe,
Would you like to point out where science points to your god or any supreme being(s)? Show me the scientific proof and I’ll believe.
But as you can’t, my disbelief shouldn’t really be offensive to you.
Debbie
August 1st, 2004 @ 3:02 pm
Debbie,
The reason it’s offensive to Billy Joe Bobby Sue Thelma Liz (with apologies to Ray Wylie Hubbard) is that your atheism is an implicit condemnation of irrational belief, and justifiably so. Since we treat god the same way as Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, our atheism by itself for many believers is an implicit statement: “You’re an adult and you still believe in [tooth fairy][Santa Claus][god]?” I once had a fascinating conversation with one of my best friends, a piously devout Orthodox Christian. In one of his more revealing statements, he said that deep down he wished he had the courage not to believe. That tells me that many believers are fundamentally unsure of themselves, so it’s no surprise that atheism shakes them up so badly.
August 1st, 2004 @ 3:46 pm
Hi everybody, this is God. I just wanted to pop in and thank you all for the wonderful support. You see, my marketing analysts and publicists believe in the old addage: negative puplicity is still publicity.
Which brings me to this shocking truth:
I LOVE little boys! ;->
August 3rd, 2004 @ 12:42 pm
The way you obssess over penis foreskins in the Bible, and the rate at which homosexuals and pedophiles flock to your priestly jobs, im not suprised in the least.
But then why do you make half the population female?
August 3rd, 2004 @ 1:20 pm
AK,
They need someone to do the laundry and cleaning.
August 8th, 2004 @ 4:52 pm
Is this thread about religion shaping government, or the ‘fact’ that you all will burn everlasting in hell? If it is the former, then I tend to agree that mixing church/state generally leads to less freedom of religion for all. If the later, repent and be saved!
June 20th, 2010 @ 2:51 pm
it is really exciting to watch 3d movies. i hope that there would be 3d sexy movies too.;’:
July 10th, 2010 @ 2:59 pm
3d movies are really great because it adds more level of realism “-.
August 23rd, 2010 @ 12:45 am
3d movies are so cool, i just wish that we could watch 3d movies on TV.-: