More Prayer
April 30, 2004 | 27 Comments
Would it be rude for atheist to tell a believer that she is praying for him, where she knows that he knows that she is an atheist?
April 30, 2004 | 27 Comments
Would it be rude for atheist to tell a believer that she is praying for him, where she knows that he knows that she is an atheist?
April 30th, 2004 @ 7:49 am
no
it would be funny…..(thanks for the idea)
April 30th, 2004 @ 9:13 am
I have to disagree with you, dear lady. If I told someone deeply religious that I, an atheist, would pray for them, it could hardly be anything other than insulting. It’s sort of like saying, ‘I’d actually do something for you, but I don’t really feel like it.’
In other words, it is mocking their beliefs, and proclaiming that you don’t care enough to do something proactive.
April 30th, 2004 @ 9:30 am
Viole,
But surely the prayer would be even more powerful coming from someone who didn’t even believe in the deity
More seriously, most believers have a blind spot on such issues and would see the offer as somehow very validating to them in a time when they welcome the support.
Perhaps an analogy is attending a church wedding for a dear friend, even though they know that you think the church is at best a place to find shelter in case the weather turns bad, and at worst it’s all bunk and you think your friend is deluded in participating in such a rite.
April 30th, 2004 @ 9:53 am
Viole, I agree it is rude, but then it has never stopped a christian who knew I was an Atheist form letting me know that they would prey for me, which is equally rude. Besides I am not against being rude on occasion
April 30th, 2004 @ 10:03 am
i agree, redfred…but i think viole is a very civilized person….more so that us two….hehe….
debbie! churches are not safe!! all that stained glass….in a hurricane……i’ve seen it……and it’s bad……
April 30th, 2004 @ 10:03 am
Doh! should have read the previous question!!!!!
April 30th, 2004 @ 11:48 am
I’d be happy to have you say you could pray for me, as long as when a time came and you were complaining about something, I could tell you to ‘offer it up’…
April 30th, 2004 @ 3:16 pm
Well, Viole may be civilized, but I’m apparently not. I tried it on a mormon(I get in arguments with them, for the purpose of keeping them from harassing the passersby) who I’d run across before, and who knew my opinion of religion. He just laughed, and asked me who I’d be praying to…
Interestingly enough, they(there was two of them) claimed that mormons are smarter than other people… claimed they learn languages faster, and that they’re all honorable and trustworthy… and that god had made them so… naturally, I swatted that down pretty quick, at least from my perspective.
April 30th, 2004 @ 4:25 pm
misteriously, i heard a mormon say the most beautiful thing i’ve ever heard in my life..and it had nothing to do with gods…
i knew her in college, she was the sister of a girl that was in my same department…
she had been raped…..she got pregnant….and had a girl….
and she told me once that it was weird that the most horrific terrible thing that could have ever happened to her also gave her the thing she loved most in the whole world…
her girl….
and, dammit, was she right!
April 30th, 2004 @ 7:15 pm
When someone close to me has a death occur to a person we have in common, I always say, “I am doing my secular equivalent of praying for you/them/whoever.” All who know me know I am an atheist (altho not militant about it.) My saying this to people has never resulted in preaching or recrimination. I don’t feel hypocritical about saying it either.
April 30th, 2004 @ 9:00 pm
Yeah, it’d be rude. Funny, but rude.
Same thing as if a Hindu said to a Muslim, “Hey, I’ll have a word with that Allah guy for you, see if I can get him to pay you some attention.”
(Although probably some Hindu somewhere has actually said this, since there are Hindu syncretists.)
May 1st, 2004 @ 5:13 pm
The whole point of religious belief is that believers are misled, deluded, brainwashed, irrational, and mentally lost to society from childhood on. This damages their brains to where they can no longer distinguish reality from imagination and fantasy. And so, no matter how silly it obviously is, an atheist offering to pray could make sense to them on various levels. Believers are mockery-proof; their whole belief system is itself a mockery of nature, consciousness, rationality, and human dignity.
As to whether it is rude, that depends on the circumstances and the level of sarcasm involved.
May 1st, 2004 @ 6:46 pm
JUNE is most articulate, and got to the point
May 1st, 2004 @ 9:20 pm
“Believers are mockery-proof”
Subtlety-proof, perhaps. Overt mockery, they definitely react to. Nail a Barbie to a cross, plant it on display in Alabama, and see what happens…
May 1st, 2004 @ 10:31 pm
OK, maybe not mockery-proof; maybe mockery-challenged. Leave a stain on a wall in the shape of a hooded figure, and they come from around the world.
May 2nd, 2004 @ 12:41 pm
Well, I have a stain on my wall…. It isn’t necessarily hooded in shape, but couldn’t I get a flock over to clean the walls…?
As an atheist, and this is going to sound silly and irrational, but just the thought of saying (even to someone I love who happens to be xtian) “I’ll pray for you” makes me feel sick to my stomach. It’s the biggest lie I could ever tell. Dunno. Just the idea is repugnant.
May 2nd, 2004 @ 7:30 pm
June said:
The whole point of religious belief is that believers are misled, deluded, brainwashed, irrational, and mentally lost to society from childhood on.
Of which religion do you speak June? Is this any religious belief? What is the definition of a belief? I don’t mean to assualt you with questions. Of course you don’t have to answer them if you don’t want to.
btw, June is a great name.
May 2nd, 2004 @ 10:00 pm
STEVE: I include all religions that require belief in and submission to powerful supernatural beings that intelligently and purposefully control our lives. As to “belief”, see any dictionary.
May 3rd, 2004 @ 8:38 am
For an atheist to offer to pray is obviously a mockery. But what if a Voodoo believer sincerely offers to sacrifice a chicken to Damballah and ask for relief of the Christian’s back pain?
May 3rd, 2004 @ 12:34 pm
I agree with Julia. It’s a deeply ironic lie that I never let pass my lips (though it has occurred to me to say out of sheer spite). It’s a pure and savage kick in the face to the Christian who knows you’re an atheist. It may not mean anything to you, the atheist, but to the Christian it’s a valuable, potent source of life-giving power.
To heck with the religious analogies… it’s a hurtful statement on par with telling a person who’s destitute and anxious, “Gee, if I had a million dollars, I’d get you out of trouble in a hurry.”
May 3rd, 2004 @ 5:47 pm
I got the mormons again. I walk past, looking all pleasant, and one of them says, ‘Hi, have you got a moment.’ Not the usual one, I think he’s sick of my constant disagreement. And interminable harassment.
This one was smart, though, and after five minutes fencing for points(Him: I know in my heart that Christ lived Me: You believe. Him: I know in my heart that Christ live Me: I know that you’re completely deluded), he told me to go away, cause he had innocent victims to convert.
As a parting shot, I offered to pray for him. Considering how I’d been selling atheism(It frees you from your burdens… never have to worry about the state of your soul… hope someday you’ll realize the truth…), it was a pretty ironic moment.
May 4th, 2004 @ 7:47 am
You “got the mormons again”. What, like cooties? Well, a good scrub should take care of the problem.
You know, I kind of like the mormo’s. They come to the door (an old lover used to be a mormo, and trust me, they’ll find past followers ANYWHERE), and I invite the boys in…Since I’m female and live alone they cannot cross my door. So they send in the chicks. Oh, yeah, bring ‘em on. But you know what? After months of sparring with my atheist ex-lover, I believe they kept coming for the company. We were probably the nicest stop on their converting route (although they never accepted refreshments. I’m thinking it’s like an alter-plane in one of terry pratchett’s novels: don’t eat the food when you’re there and you will be able to return to the “real” discworld…anyhow). After awhile, god never crossed their lips. They talked football, they talked skirts, they talked about their missions, but only in so far as the preparation they had to make for them (learning new languages, etc). I kinda like to think that we opened their eyes to a few things, made them question.
May 4th, 2004 @ 8:28 am
Telling a godidiot (any believer) that I’ll pray for them isn’t rude enough and the concept of it makes me throw up.
May 6th, 2004 @ 3:41 pm
Test
May 10th, 2004 @ 10:09 pm
Raving A, I’m coming late to this, I know, but if I understand the question, if you told me you would pray for me, I wouldn’t think it rude at all. I’d thank you, and probably ask if it’s ok that I do the same for you. Prayer is a gift, whoever it’s coming from.
May 14th, 2004 @ 2:22 pm
If, as several have suggested, an atheist telling a believer that s/he will pray for s/him is tantamount to saying “I don’t care enough to do anything,” then isn’t a believer telling a known atheist the same thing also saying “I really don’t care enough to do anything for you,” or worse “I don’t help atheists”?
Yes, there’s the immediate fair response that the believer may really believe the praying is doing some good, but in a practical, rational sense, most believers should realize that rather than comforting their atheistic peer, they are in fact doing nothing more than proselytizing.
My personal solution to this dilemma, BTW, has been to substitute the word “hope” or similar, as in “I’ll be hoping for you.”
May 14th, 2004 @ 10:20 pm
Yes. Fuck the believer.