Forn Sidr
November 7, 2003 | 26 Comments
Denmark yesterday recognized the worship of Viking gods such as Odin and Thor as a religion. Although the request — by a group called Forn Sidr — was originally turned down in 1999, worshippers of the Norse deities will now be allowed to celebrate legal marriages, receive donations and get tax breaks.
American public schools still teach that the Norse, Greek and Roman gods are “myths.” They are the one form of theology that can safely be declared false. Hindu, Wiccan and Christian mythology do not receive the same deserved disrespect. There’d be bloodshed in the classroom if they did.
So it would be interesting to see what would happen if the Forn Sidrites made their presence known in this country. Faced with a First Amendment challenge, the schools would have three choices: (1) stop teaching mythology (2) include Christianity, Judaism, etc. in the mythology curriculum, or (3) create a comparative religion curriculum which included the Norse “theology.” I think the first alternative would be the most likely. The second would probably be ruled unconstitutional because the government isn’t supposed to take a position on the truth of any religion. The third would simply be unpalatable — no good Christian would tolerate having their faith compared, even indirectly, to a religion which “everyone knows” is really just a myth.
This being the case, I can see a day when the schools are also compelled to ban any children’s fiction containing a supernatural element. Cults may one day form around Harry Potter and The Wizard of Oz and declare themselves to be religions. And they’ll have the same constitutional right against disparagement as every other disparagable belief.
UPDATE: Commentor Eva suggests that devotees of Star Trek have established some sort of religion. However, fans of outer space science fiction would never do that. Nobody’s that stupid.
November 7th, 2003 @ 7:23 am
Denmarkers are worshipping Thor?
That’s what legalizing drugs buys you. A bunch of potheads meeting once a week for bible rea– er, comic book readings.
November 7th, 2003 @ 7:50 am
Yeah, but wouldn’t it be cool to go to a hotel someplace, plop down on the bed, open the nightstand thingy, and flip through a stack of Thor comics looking for something to read?
Would beat the hell out of what they got now.
November 7th, 2003 @ 10:39 am
Cults may one day form around Harry Potter and The Wizard of Oz
Amatures. i already have a religious cult based around myself.
November 7th, 2003 @ 10:43 am
obviously, none of you have ever seen a Trekkie…
November 7th, 2003 @ 10:52 am
If Forn Sidr cult members were to make trouble in America, we’d simply label them terrorists and throw them into our concentration Camp Delta at Guantanamo Bay. Do it on a Wednesday or Thursday (Odin’s and Thor’s Day).
November 7th, 2003 @ 1:05 pm
Does that mean they can’t list hit dice anymore for Thor and Odin in the Monster Manual? Are all those AD&D manuals suddenly “hate speech”?
Listing hit dice -> condoning deicide ->hate speech
November 7th, 2003 @ 3:54 pm
Well, since Star Trek has been brought up… how about that Star Gate TV show. If you haven’t seen it, a central conceit of it is that deities from various relgions around the world are actually aliens — for instance, Ra is a parasitic snake and Thor is a spindly little gray anal-probe type alien. Will the Forn Sidr Anti-Defamation League be leading boycotts against the show? Or perhaps they’ll instead put pressure on the producers to add an alien Jesus character, since the show has a glaring lack of alien deities from religions that people take seriously.
November 7th, 2003 @ 4:38 pm
In Star Wars George Lucas borrows from many religions – we have a classic clash of good vs evil. I think the efforts by the Australians and the Brits in their recent Census returns have a lot of merit. What is there in Jedi/The Force that makes it any less legitimate as other belief systems.
There is even a “prophecy of one who will bring balance to the Force”. Turns out this child (Anakin Skywalker) came from a virgin birth too.
The Force could be the Tao, Creator’s breath etc but as a synthesis of “best practice” personally I think it’s much more compelling than established older religions. Of course, it’s still worthless crap..
Has anyone else noticed that Kenny in South Park is modeled on Jesus Christ?
November 7th, 2003 @ 6:55 pm
Dude, that’s right! I’m going to say Odinsday and Thorsday from now on.
I think it’s funny that they had to apply for recognition. Do you think the current religions just want to maintain the monopoly with a slap in the face or do they really and truly not even acknowledge other peoples independance? Hmm. Hey, that story is from an African news page, wow.
Anyway, I’ve forgotten the bits and peices of the Norse religions I knew, time to brush up maybe.
November 7th, 2003 @ 9:01 pm
However, fans of outer space science fiction would never do that. Nobody’s that stupid.
Didn’t L. Ron Hubbard start as a science fiction author? And didn’t he later convert legions of his fans into Scientologist cultists?
November 7th, 2003 @ 11:27 pm
But I guess stupidity is a prerequisite- and that’s just me being a meany, its right out of http://antisecular.blogspot.com/
“Rationalism in religion is a perennial temptation to be resisted” -and he’s not reffering to rationalism in the “picking apart the irrelevant detials” sense, which I would understand, but in the “accept the mystery and just go with it sense” sense……for the pupose of, get this, not chasing false security. Worshipping a completely non-present being in hopes of living forever is not false security?
November 8th, 2003 @ 4:39 am
Maybe that whole “midiclorians” (or however it’s spelled) thing was Lucas’s way of intentionally sabotaging the Jedi-as-a-religion movement by demystifying and rationalizing the Force, thereby avoiding ending up like Hubbard — surrounded by dangerous nutjobs that take his make-believe very seriously.
If only Moses had such foresight.
November 8th, 2003 @ 7:47 am
“Worshipping a non-existent being” is not all that uncommon. Many of us who are/were married have experienced it. After a few years of living with the adorable one you once worshipped, you wake up one morning and ask yourself who that fat ass with the bad breath is, snoring next to you.
It seems obvious by now that one of the convolutions of our brain is a cul de sac that is capable of inventing or absorbing legends and then firmly believing in them. It works like an appendix that gets infected with religion and then radiates belief to the rest of the brain. That would explain why otherwise totally rational scientists and pragmatic politicians can also be firm “worshippers of non-existent beings”.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 10:31 am
Ok, I’ll come clean. I accept the island of Hawaii as my lord and savior. This may seem irrational, but at least I can point to my god on a map.
November 8th, 2003 @ 1:50 pm
I agree with Forn Sidr (a.k.a. Asatru) 100%. Hail Odin, Thor, Freya! I tolerate no religion that is monotheistic, has a “founder”, or is newer than 1500 B.C.E.. Any such religion I presume to be invented, fabricated, false, a lie. I hate Akhenaton. Only the ancient, eternal religions for me. Either polytheism or else atheism for me.
(By the way, Marvel’s Thor comics are inaccurate. A comic I once saw showed Odin with two eyes. That is wrong. In the Norse myths, He has only one eye, having sacrificed the other to drink of Mimir’s well of wisdom.)
And, by the way, I keep recalling that, back in the early 1980’s, I once saw a book entitled “Forgiven Love” with a picture of a wimpy Jesus on the cover — separating two beautiful Lesbians. Despicable! I don’t forgive that at all! I don’t know or care whether Jesus ever existed at all, but if he was ever in any way remotely like that, then crucifiction was way too good for him. I hate his guts. I’m in a pissy mood right now. Up with Lesbianism! Up With Beauty!
November 8th, 2003 @ 2:46 pm
those who start religions then have to put up with true believers as lifelong companions.
November 9th, 2003 @ 9:52 am
Tangential but related: A few years ago, when I first moved to Northern Virginia, there was a controversy in the schools. I believe it was the Fairfax County school system, but whichever it was, the high schools were having speakers in every week to discuss various religions and “spiritual beliefs.”
The controversy arose because one of the speakers was from Anton Lavey’s “Church of Satan.” Parents were aghast at this particular speaker — which is, as anyone who looks it up knows, not really “Satanist” per se, but hedonist and anti-Christian. (No baby sacrificing or anything like that.) So the schools passed out permission slips for that speaker only, allowing parents to opt out of letting their children hear that speaker.
Apparently the First Amendment implications were completely lost on the school board, because the CoS promptly sued for religious discrimination. (The parents should have sued as well, since their children were obligated to hear all the other religious babblers.) I don’t recall the outcome, but that’s what happens when you allow the government to give its imprimatur to mythology, and allow mythologists to address schoolchildren and present their beliefs as facts.
November 9th, 2003 @ 9:34 pm
I don’t think any religion should be recognized by government. If government realy isn’t suposed to get into it they should even be giving christianity tax brakes and the like. A religion should be suported by the religies(?). And to regards in school, they should be teaching us about things not telling us what everything is, thats why not many people can even think. They should teach about these religions and call them religions. Even the greek and roman gods.
September 3rd, 2004 @ 6:57 am
With regards to the Native Northern European religion Forn Sidr (also known as Asatru and Odinism). Your article refers to Norse beliefs as ‘myths’. All religions are based upon mythology. Christianity has it’s mythology as does Hinduism etc. Hindu mythology is somewhat similar in parts to Norse mythology. Those who discriminate or deny that Forn Sidr is a valid religion would never dare do the same to the Native religion of say North America’s Indians. That would be racism. But when the Native culture of Europe is mocked it seems to be acceptable. Even when ethnic Europeans (or Whites) themselves participate in it! Well I think it isn’t acceptable and ethnic Europeans need to stand and fight this form as racism. No single religion is better or worse than another. The USA needs to start living up to its 1st Amendment and include the fair and equal treatment of Forn Sidr alongside Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Native American religion etc as a valid part of world religion.
July 4th, 2009 @ 7:06 pm
“If Forn Sidr cult members were to make trouble in America, we’d simply label them terrorists and throw them into our concentration Camp Delta at Guantanamo Bay. Do it on a Wednesday or Thursday (Odin’s and Thor’s Day).”
It’s called Odin’s Rite. They already have applied for religious status within the United States, and it was granted without any hesitation. They also have applied to have Odinist rituals performed within the military for those who wish it (Though this may take a while, as there are not very many Odinists within the military, though I was one of them.) They have prison outreach programs, food drives, basic charity work. So yeah, they sure all got thrown into Guantanamo. I’m glad to see the government shows a more enlightened view than you.
August 1st, 2009 @ 10:54 pm
It’s cool, though. Jesus is a cunt.