The Raving Theist

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Islam for Dummies

April 14, 2003 | 28 Comments

Last December, the God Squad defended Islam against accusations that it was a “bad religion” governed by a text which advocates the killing of infidels and compares non-Muslims to apes and monkeys. Then, the Squad blamed the scriptural deficiencies on the fallible humans who transcribed the Quran. They further accused those who quoted the bad parts of trying to stir up prejudice and trouble.

I picked up a copy of the Squad’s “Religion for Dummies” a couple of days again (having recently posted about it here). This is how they sugar-coat the Islam’s current stance on the death penalty:

In Islam, capital punishment is allowable for the gravest of crimes:

— Murder

— Committing adultery in public

— Attacking Islam in such a way as to harm it or the people who practice it, if the attacker is a former Muslim.

In the case of murder, the victim’s family gets to choose between retribution and forgiveness, and forgiveness is the preferred option. In the case of adultery, execution is rarely necessary because the act must occur in public and be witnessed by four people. In the case of attacking the religious community, perhaps the gravest crime, the person can be forgiven if he or she repents.

No challenge whatsoever to the notion that adultery and criticizing Islam are the “gravest of crimes,” or that either one is deserving of death. Being stoned for adultery is fine because burden of proof for obtaining a conviction is so extraordinarily high — four people must see you kiss your girlfriend in a restaurant. Murderers get off if they pay off the grieving family, and people who say that an obviously bad religion is bad might escape death if they say they’re sorry.

Or maybe I’m just being intolerant.

Comments

28 Responses to “Islam for Dummies”

  1. Rumblefish
    April 14th, 2003 @ 3:52 pm

    I think islam needs the same shit hammering that we give christianity. It seems alot of people are afraid to touch the subject. The god squad defends islam becuase it so closly parreles there respective faiths.

  2. Nkomomo
    April 14th, 2003 @ 5:21 pm

    Well, Islam certainly no more repugnant than the others. Whenever I bring this up to people — that Fundamentalist Christianity and Orthodox Judaism are just as hurtful towards women as as Islam, they say “not if you practice them correctly.” The whole thing is circular and annoying.

  3. nietzsche
    April 14th, 2003 @ 5:43 pm

    Islam is truly the dumbest religion and the Koran is the most primitive piece of garbage that I’ve ever read. As Christopher Hitchens once quipped: “If the Koran is the word of God, it must have been dictated on a very bad day.”

  4. william burns
    April 14th, 2003 @ 5:56 pm

    Islam the dumbest religion? You’ve never heard of Scientology?

  5. nietzsche
    April 14th, 2003 @ 7:35 pm

    Yeah, I’ve heard of Scientology. Alright, I’ll admit that I woudn’t want the job of deciding which faith was the dumbest. For one thing, one becomes lost in an Aladdin’s cave of multiple choice. However, as wacky as Scientology is, I’ve never heard of a Scientologist calling for the murder of non-Scientologists, have you? Unfortunately, you’ll find numerous suras in the Koran that do just that, i.e, call the faithful to murder non-Muslims. As much as left-liberals, and multiculturalists try to whitewash all the inhumane filth that you’ll find in that primitive piece of garbage known as the Koran, they cannot alter Muslims’ scripures.

  6. The Raving Atheist
    April 14th, 2003 @ 8:26 pm

    RUMBLEFISH: I think Islam gets shit-hammered much worse than Christianity in this country, because the Muslim population is so small. The God Squad defends Islam because they defend all religions not matter what their ethical principles.

    NKOMOMO: I agree. And Orthodox Judaism probably gets off the most easily. During the 2000 election, Hillary Clinton criticized George Bush for speaking at the racially segregationist Bob Jones University — even though she was at the same time actively cultivating the vote of the sexually segregationist (and completely corrupt) Hebrew-Speaking-Carp Ultra-Orthodox Jews of New Square (see here). She ultimately got 99% of the vote, and her husband pardoned the cult’s ring-leaders for stealing millions in federal funds.

    NIETZSCHE, BURNS, NIETZSCHE: I haven’t done a line-by-line comparison of the Bible and the Koran to determine which is blood-thirstier. There are plenty of websites devoted to Biblical, particularly Old Testament atrocities, but my impression is that there might be more “kill the infidel” talk in the Koran. However, each text says it at least once, and that’s enough. I think Islam is more violent in practice since countries with Islamic majorities don’t allow secular government.

    Scientology’s Dianetics is mainly pop psychology mixed with dead space aliens. They mainly channel their aggression through harassment and litigation (see here.

  7. Rumblefish
    April 14th, 2003 @ 11:18 pm

    neitzche: scientalogist’s may never have flown a plane in to a biulding, but it’s believer’s have made some pretty horendous movies. John Traveltuna alone has subjected mllions of people to horendous movies. Swordfish, face off, Greese, broken arrow,look who’s talking, look who’s talking 2, I don’t know if he had enough sence to not to do part 3. I’m sure i missed some. Don’t forget Jenna Elfman and Kirstie Alley, they suck too.

    Raving Athiest: There are few if any atheist sites that directly oppose islam. Some athiest sites have pages, but not much. I like how you apply the bible to current events, it’s a much easier way for me to remember specific passeges from the bible. So i was hopeing some one, if not you , would do so.

  8. nietzsche
    April 15th, 2003 @ 1:26 pm

    are you putting in the same category making bad movies and killing people?

  9. Rumblefish
    April 15th, 2003 @ 2:52 pm

    Yes, i am equating the two. killing people is obviously the same as bad movies. This was in no way a joke, I’m completely insane and thought the holocoust was equivalent to the opening week of kangaroo jack ( If you havn’t figured it out yet, i’m being sarcastic). It was a joke you overly serious putz. I thought that was obvious, my mistake.

  10. nietzsche
    April 15th, 2003 @ 3:06 pm

    thanks for the clarification; i was indeed afraid that you thought that making moronic movies was as bad as killing people. i’m glad to have been mistaken on your account

  11. Rumblefish
    April 15th, 2003 @ 3:34 pm

    Interesting notes on scientology:
    Scientologist Jeffrey Scott, one of the screenwriters for the animated series The muppet babies, proudly brags that he inserted Scientology concepts into the show.

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/enemy_names/
    There is a lot of interesting things about how wacky L.R hubberd was here.

  12. Jason Malloy
    April 15th, 2003 @ 5:14 pm

    There was another “more Islam” complaint before, and I liked TRA’s response, but I think it might have been deleted with the blog change, b/c I can’t find it. Too bad. Basically someone bitched that TRA didn’t slam Islam enough. Then I linked to a sample of some of TRAs many Islam-related threads and basically said ‘bull-shit’. Then TRA quipped to him (paraphrasing to the best of my memory), “I would post more on Islam, but convincing allah-loving America of the evil of that particular religion is a tall-order”.

    The point makes sense. Islam deserves scrutiny as far as it is trivilizing American law or being afforded more undeserved respect than outrageous fiction should demand, but it shouldn’t be used as a tool of prejudice against a people.

    Perhaps the line is a fine one. I’ve heard enough Christians moan about this being a “hate-site”, to understand the dilemma. Of course it’s a notorious challenge for people on the giving and recieving ends of criticism to compartmentalize their feelings, and were left with the million-dollar problem: Is it possible to “hate the sinner, not the sin”? Of course it is, but there is an unfortunate problem forever luriking there-in. That’s also a good explanation for why “Orthodox Judaism probably gets off the most easily”. Jews have a special status in that they are somewhat of an ethnic culture as well as a religion, and one with a, should we say, uniquely unfortunate history, so criticisms of jews often get murky, both in the minds of the criticized/criticizers.

    Meh, its a sucky problem, but its something that has to be considered. Perhaps in a Dennis Miller-esque fashion TRA should conclude very post with: “or maybe I’m just being intolerant” as a kind of cushion against the Minute particulars/ADL/C.A..I.R types

  13. Jason Malloy
    April 15th, 2003 @ 5:18 pm

    . . .”hate the sinner, not the sin”

    erp. scratch that. reverse.

    …I think

  14. Eva
    April 15th, 2003 @ 7:37 pm

    jason, your comment about jews not receiving a lot of criticism, besides being compounded by the reason you stated (their, err, less than fortunate history), is because if anybody did it, the would be accused of being a hitlerite nazi mass murderer.
    and most people would really be offended by that…except for those that actually denied that 6 million of them were massacred not very long ago.

  15. The Raving Atheist
    April 15th, 2003 @ 11:17 pm

    JASON, EVA: The exchange (sparked by “Old Crow”) is in the comments (see here) to my January 24, 2003 posting regarding Ash Wednesday head-smears. All of my old haloscan comments can be found beneath the corresponding post, but only the ones in Moveable Type are searchable. What I said was “I will try to vanquish Islam on Wednesday, when I name the Prophet Muhammad ‘Godidiot of the Week.’ However, convincing Allah-loving America of the evil of that religion is a tall order” (good memory!). In an earlier post in the same section I said that “[m]y responsibility is domestic affairs . . . plus, I suspect that violence, rather than reason, is the only antidote to certain forms of religion.”

    My point was that America has such a low opinion of Islam already (especially post-9/11) that I don’t need to mock it. Also, I think that it’s difficult to combat Islam on an intellectual level, since all of their arguments start with “Praise be to Allah” and they issue Fatwas against you if you argue too strenuously. For all of my rhetoric I’m not really afraid of the Catholic Church starting World War III; the threat is much more from the ranks of those one billion people who bow down to Mecca five times a day. But they are really not a factor in the day-to-day culture of America, which is what this blog is mostly about.

    I think one problem that America’s own milder religiosity poses is that reason is lost as an effective weapon. You can’t seriously argue that God doesn’t reward terrorists with 72 virgins if you yourself believe he casts people into hell for not believing in Jesus. All you get is an unresolvable Allah-says/Jesus says factual dispute based upon afterlife fantasies.

    I have no more respect for insane Jewish superstitions than Christian ones, and I’m offended by efforts to portray legitimate criticism as ethnic hatred. If you come to me and say that because your ancestors were slaughtered you can hate gays and demean women, as the Orthodox Jews do, my response is still fuck you. Plenty of soldiers of all faiths and non-faith died in WWII, but that doesn’t give their children the right to hate others on the theory that suffering equals truth.

  16. bob burnquest
    May 12th, 2003 @ 9:45 am

    im retaerede

  17. slicefive
    May 19th, 2003 @ 7:37 am

    Theres not much i could write thats not already been writen,But i have become awair of islamic street preachers around rusholme [manchester uk] spreading the evils of Athieism and such athiest groups funding people in the middle east to spread the evil message to gods people.
    I never really listend to an of the crap they shouted about untill i heard someone talking about athieism.I dont know if this is a wide spread concearn for the rightwing islamic groups but i do know its a concearn for me.

  18. Anonymous
    May 26th, 2003 @ 9:00 pm

    Islam is the greatest religion…. read a book and see why!

  19. only_son_of_god
    August 12th, 2003 @ 3:21 pm

    You all now know why I am more afraid of muslims! They’ll first kill and then ask questions (shows their “listening” skills, doesn’t it?). But let me clarify before we all paint a picture.

    I am atheist. I understand there are categories in that that I can’t remember, so I’ll state my thoughts. I believe only in observable and verifiable truths. So it’s not like “there’s no God” or “I believe in God, but I hate religion” with me. “I don’t know” is my answer to things that most other people make up their perceptions about — straight and simple. However, my ethics is same as that of atheist: “people first”, “fairness” and “justice”.

    My wife is conservative, but a moderate conservative. Of course she does bother me sometimes about difference in our ethics and we work on finding the common ground. It is pretty difficult at times, because some things are simply common sense to her, and not to me!

    Anyways, within muslims there are two types (as happens with other religions): Moderates and Fundamentalists.

    Examples of moderates are those who do business and go about their life breaking everything Islam says, but can’t break away from traditions (unlike how I did). These folks are brave enough as they play both sides, modern democratic values as well as bowing their heads in strange rituals (for it has to be done). You know, religion is a fad with them and they think “don’t mend it if it ain’t broken”. They don’t realize their life is working only because they follow the law fullly and the religion brokenly.

    Then the fundamentalists are the people you have all been professing “love” for. You gotta love these people, because they are very sure about themselves — unlike many of our species that live on doubt. They are sure on many things told to them by God: kill anyone who leaves Islam, or stone cheating wives to death, or Americans don’t know who their real father is, or American old people don’t have respect of their children and are sent to oldage homes, or Americans are like animals because they have sex before marriage, or Americans are more unhappy than us because they have money but don’t have beautiful culture like ours, or “God knows” and “God is great” is the answer to everything, or American women are treated poorly (as in, “suffering”) as they have to dance nude and be in advertisements exposing their body, etc.

    Infact there are more: TV is haram (forbidden), electricity was haram, nukes are haram, pork is haram, education was haram, and so many logically useful things are already declared haram (non-Islamic). In other words, the culture makes sure that there is suffering, and serves religion to quell the suffering. You gotta love these guys.

    You know, Islam is a great religion; all you’ve got to do to understand its beauty is give your head in into the mindjob.

    Oh, by the way, I just realized God is watching: “Raving Atheist, I want your head for what you wrote on the blog. You have desecrated my ex-religion. How dare you do that publicly? Do you have no fear of God and its enforcers (aka, the fundamentalists)?” ;-)

    One big rant, eh!
    – only_son_of_god

  20. Gangsta
    September 8th, 2003 @ 5:39 pm

    nietzsche u r the biggest di**head in the worl insulting islam like that.

  21. cheek-in-bone
    September 8th, 2003 @ 6:09 pm

    Check out http://www.faithfreedom.org It seems lots of former muslims are insulting Islam big time, getting many muslims pissed.

  22. Naturally selected
    September 9th, 2003 @ 2:32 am

    I wouldn’t wipe my ass with the quran or the hadiths. Nietzsche is right. Muslims are just mad at Ali Sinai from the above mentioned site because they cannot issue a fatwa on him. Islam is a sham. I could make up a better religion than that. Unlike Christianity, Islam is supposed to be the absolute word of the prophet. When Christianity began to become exposed when people found out the earth was round and that the earth moved around the sun, people made excuses for it. Galileo, Bruno, Copernicus all suffered because of Xianity. Eventually, as people are irrational, people began to say that the bible is still the word of god, but it is not to be taken seriously word for word. They could rationalize the fables by saying that there were many writers. As bad as the bible is, the quran is much worse. It is filled with hate toward woman, jews, and kafirs. The quran makes IMPERATIVE statements to the followers to kill unbelievers. Unfortunately, for Islam this cannot happen. Islam has never had a separation of mosque and state. Also, the quran and hadiths are considered infallible and no one can question the prophet. Islam cannot become more liberal because it (directly or indireclty) is from one person-muhammad. Islam has not and will not ever reform in the same way xianity did. I’m not gonna get into an entire history of islam here rite now, but let’s just say that is the most violent ideology on earth….and I wouldn’t wipe my ass with the quran.

  23. curtz
    September 13th, 2003 @ 10:15 pm

    hello,
    we are a small team of french History teachers in university and we decided to create a huge database about all acts of violence and intolerance in muslim History from the beginning.
    If you want to help us in this “quest”, send us precise datas with dates and references.

    thanks.

    GC

  24. June
    September 14th, 2003 @ 10:36 am

    Simplify your quest: Collect acts that promote peace, kindness, or tolerance. Will save a lot of disk space.

  25. Patrick
    September 25th, 2003 @ 2:57 pm

    I strongly advise you to visit this site: http://www.faithfreedom.org a site made by former Muslems (now athe

  26. Islam
    March 15th, 2004 @ 11:10 pm

    You will all burn in Hell, just watch. Islam is the way and Allah is the greatest.

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  28. Janette Sellers
    January 10th, 2009 @ 5:22 pm

    hi
    4ckl20g3k8841lip
    good luck

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